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The MacBook Neo

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Re: The MacBook Neo

#661
> When I wrote last week that the MacBook Neo is the first product from Apple with an A-series chip sporting more than one USB port — addressing complaints that the Neo’s second USB-C port only supports USB 2.0 speeds — a few readers pointed to the Apple Silicon developer transition kits.

A12Z is really M0 (or you could say M1 is A14X or A14Z depending on GPU bin), so I would not characterize it as "(iPhone) A-series."

Re: The MacBook Neo

#662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're your friend, why didn't you just tell them to get a Mac?

Cute, and while I will agree that Apple hardware is generally superior or at least an excellent value, and OS X is miles beyond Windows in usability, I can't in good conscience recommend a Mac on principle. They impose obsessive control over their walled garden, constant pressure to use Apple ecosystem products, and they are staunchly opposed to interoperability regardless of it being an obviously anti-consumer tacti…

What “walled garden” burdens a Mac user? And what interoperability are you looking for? There is nothing proprietary about Thunderbolt, USB C, Bluetooth etc

Re: The MacBook Neo

#663

I’m a bit confused about who this article is really for. The MacBook Neo starts at $600 so when I read: “MacBook Neo is built on an iPhone chip—the A18 Pro. It’s far less capable of running intensive tasks than any of Apple’s M‑series chips or any moderately powered Intel or AMD processor.” and that: “It’s merely the right kind of performance for anybody who wants to browse the internet or stream video.” ...at this p…

I would take 8x worse specs for the computer to be built by Apple because it's guaranteed to be 2x faster and a 10x better user experience. Raw specs are meaningless.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#664

> You cannot buy an x86 PC laptop in the $600–700 price range that competes with the MacBook Neo on any metric — performance, display quality, audio quality, or build quality. And certainly not software quality. I would argue the opposite: while Apple hardware is generally excellent, it is the software that leaves to be desired. Apple has also been consistently pushing the industry in a dangerous direction (walled ga…

Haven’t HN users been warning that Apple was going to turn the Mac into a wall garden since the Mac App Store was introduced in 2009?

Re: The MacBook Neo

#665
post #325

While the impact of the MacBook Neo is huge, this type of review is really screaming of an inexperienced reviewer who can't actually make good purchase recommendations to average people. It's really cool that this device is cheap but 8GB of RAM is the elephant in the room. Even non-technical web browsing users will notice the sluggishness coming from that spec. The moment they upgrade it to the next iPhone processor,…

Here is a video of a user who opens up every single program on the Mac, including a video editor and edits 4k video at full resolution with no sluggishness. Care to reevaluate your opinion?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-VOt9559Gk

Re: The MacBook Neo

#666
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's dumb. You can hardly even buy a machine with 4GB of memory on sale, at any price. If you are making products that depend on people spending money on them, you generally don't have to care about broke people with 15 year old computers.

I must say, the irony of this comment in a thread about Apple moving down-market without losing quality is … well, it burns. Along with the arrogance: “Anyone who can’t afford 8GB isn’t worthy of being my customer,” is literally the opposite of what Steve Jobs always said. I was stuck once in a cabin in the woods with an old Android phone. I’m glad it still worked, and that people curating software experiences for it…

Didn’t Steve Jobs basically say Apple didn’t know how to make a good computer for $500 and used that as a justification to not sell any products to the lowest priced area of the market?

Found it, it was from an earnings call: https://appleinsider.com/articles/08/10/22/steve_jobs_on_app...

There’s no irony here. The plain fact exists that 8GB of RAM has been considered not an especially exotic amount lot even on cheap on laptops and desktops for about a decade if not longer.

$450 in 2015 would have bought you a Dell laptop with 6GB of upgradable memory:

https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/dell-inspiron-15-5...

The PS4 launched in 2013 and had 8GB of RAM with an operating system that barely multi-tasks.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#667
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's dumb. You can hardly even buy a machine with 4GB of memory on sale, at any price. If you are making products that depend on people spending money on them, you generally don't have to care about broke people with 15 year old computers.

How much memory does your parents and grandparents computers have? There are a lot of people out there with older computers, probably even some that you know :)

My parents have 8GB and 16GB, respectively. The computer with 8GB is 6 years old and it was the base model at the time.

$450 in 2015 would have bought you a Dell laptop with 6GB of upgradable memory:

https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/dell-inspiron-15-5...

My uncle bought a $350 trash Windows PC a couple years ago, literally the cheapest thing I could find on sale at Staples, and it came with 12GB of RAM.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#668
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's dumb. You can hardly even buy a machine with 4GB of memory on sale, at any price. If you are making products that depend on people spending money on them, you generally don't have to care about broke people with 15 year old computers.

Not caring makes the world worse for everyone. All of us. Including you.

My main point isn’t about caring or not, the point is that 4GB RAM in a laptop/desktop is incredibly rare for how outdated it is.

The PS4 came out in 2013 and has 8GB of RAM. In case you need help counting, that’s 13 years ago.

And that’s an optimized game console with no general purpose operating system and limited multitasking capability.

10 years ago, Samsung phones were shipping with 6GB of RAM. Not many phones even physically last that long.

My uncle bought a $350 trash Windows PC a couple years ago, literally the cheapest thing I could find on sale at Staples, and it came with 12GB of RAM.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#669
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, macOS has hardly improved in the past decade. The only improvements are about ecosystem integration, which I don't really care about. Everything else is stuck in the 2010s. UI has regressed if you ask me.

What improvements has Windows made in the last decade? I think what you're describing is a symptom of modern software development as a whole.

Windows Terminal and PowerToys are pretty nice. The Phone Link app is convenient, and screenshots are way better (no need to paste into Paint anymore, just use snip and sketch)

Re: The MacBook Neo

#670

You greatly underestimate the utility used, serviceable laptops have provided to broke students. My first laptop was a decommissioned pos office dell ultrabook. By every metrics it would've been the worst option to choose, but since it had replaceable memory I was able to push it to 16 gigs and get through my computer science degree and many side projects. Computational speed was adequate for me, I ran Linux on it. I…

It's definitely a product for the middle class, not the poor ("broke students" vs "mom bought me this laptop").

The distinction is a lot of (most?) Apple products are _expensive_ for middle class buyers, while this represents good value.

If it's well designed and robust, it might be a great machine to buy second hand in 3-5 years.

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