Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional • Hacker News Board

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#661

Post by wetpaws » Tue, Mar 10, 2026, 6:44 PM UTC

unselect5917 wrote: post #463

jaredklewis wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Haifa daycare study can’t be used to extrapolate much. They fined parents (IIRC) ~$3 per late pickup. Rerun the study with a $300 fine and let’s see how it pans out. It’s an interesting finding, but that then people take it to mean that fines don’t work (no matter their size) is insane.

I don't like paltry sums like this. $300 is a significant financial impact to someone who's barely making ends meet, and absolutely nothing at all to a billionaire. "If the penalty for a crime is a fine, then that law only exists for the poor." Make it a tiny % of net worth, with a modest minimum and watch EVERYONE obey. Or at least something meaningful to everyone, or don't make it a fine. Use some other carrot or s…

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Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#662

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 10, 2026, 6:48 PM UTC

LorenPechtel wrote: post #623

SecretDreams wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One might argue the intersection itself is the problem and should be redesigned, as well as adjoining roadways feeding into the offending intersection.

If it's consistently high something needs fixing. But accidents are random, there will always be some intersections that by pure chance have more accidents. Put cameras on those, presto, cameras "work".

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Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#663

Post by matheusmoreira » Tue, Mar 10, 2026, 6:56 PM UTC

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #659

pirates wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which proves that if they can, they will. So there’s no reason to give them more ways to do it.

The reason is that it increases traffic safety. It's even possible to set the cameras up in such a way that they only store data when a traffic violation occurs. That would address the surveillance issue. I have a strong sense that the primary objection people have to red light cameras is that they don't like getting caught running red lights, and that the surveillance argument is a rationalization, not the real obje…

Automated traffic law enforcement is surveillance. The fact it's limited in scope and functionality doesn't matter. It's still surveillance.

All surveillance increases safety. The cost is freedom.

Do you trust humans with the ability to judge the situation and the freedom to decide to run a red light if they think it's safe? Or do you surveil every intersection and punish all infractions regardless of conditions or the existence of actual victims?

For people like me, it's a matter of basic human dignity. I want to be a human with the capacity for judgement and the power to act on it. I want to decide for myself. I want to live in a society that recognizes this. I won't sacrifice this dignity in the name of safety.

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#664

Post by bdangubic » Tue, Mar 10, 2026, 6:58 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #457

bdangubic wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is why going to court pretty much takes care of these tickets. of course, for a lot of people, going to court costs more money than paying the ticket so people pay. disclaimer: I write software for court houses and am intimately familiar with the proceedings etc. in some jurisdictions these tickets will be outright dismissed and in others you may have to put up a bit of fight :)

"this is why going to court pretty much takes care of these tickets." But what about things like red flag laws, child support (like the cited case law), etc?

If you get a ticket in the mail, go to Court and contest it if you have time.

This is good suggestion in general even if you get a ticket by Officer because if Officer does not show up in Court (this happens more that you’d think) the ticket will be dismissed

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#665

Post by sejje » Tue, Mar 10, 2026, 6:59 PM UTC

NetMageSCW wrote: post #379

sejje wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't run into those (I mostly drive in rural areas--in fact, there's no stoplight in my county) -- but I do run into some lights that just change in the middle of the night, for no reason, and then take a really long time to change back to green, despite not even a single car being present / going through.

Lights with sensors have a backup pattern of timed changes so that you won’t get stuck at a light where the sensor isn’t seeing your car.

Okay, well it should be about a 10 second green light, but it's more like 2 minutes.

This is a side street that in high traffic times might see 4 or 5 cars waiting.

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#666

Post by sejje » Tue, Mar 10, 2026, 7:00 PM UTC

mh- wrote: post #479

sejje wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in childcare about 20 years ago, and we charged $1 per minute late. We had to keep two staff there, and they would split the fine. Many times we got stiffed. Edit: for reference, our fee was about $14/day to keep the kid, so it was a pretty stiff penalty.

Well, If the staff got stiffed on the fee "many times", and the parents were allowed to bring their kid back.. the place didn't charge $1 per minute late. They just bluffed and got called on it. (apologies for the immediate edit, changed my wording)

In some cases they weren't allowed back, but it was rare. Most people paid up when the director got involved.

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#667

Post by sejje » Tue, Mar 10, 2026, 7:01 PM UTC

brigandish wrote: post #480

sejje wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in childcare about 20 years ago, and we charged $1 per minute late. We had to keep two staff there, and they would split the fine. Many times we got stiffed. Edit: for reference, our fee was about $14/day to keep the kid, so it was a pretty stiff penalty.

> Many times we got stiffed. I understand that you could not keep the child till you were paid (kidnapping and ransom shouldn't be a business plan!), but you could refuse them future service until they paid.

I couldn't, as a staffer--but yes, the organization could, and they did a couple of times that I know of.

One person had a $180 fine (half of that was mine) and they were asked not to come back when they refused to pay it.

Smaller amounts were ignored.

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#668

Post by sharpshadow » Tue, Mar 10, 2026, 7:02 PM UTC

It’s a common practice to avoid penalties like losing your driving license due to traffic violations by declaring that you haven’t been driving the vehicle during the incident and it was somebody else which has to agree to this and let’s say gets a monetary compensation. It works like that here in Germany, it sounds like it works in a similar way in the US.

Penalizing the owner of the vehicle regardless of the driver would be less ideal for society in my opinion.

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#669

Post by joshuamorton » Tue, Mar 10, 2026, 8:01 PM UTC

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #604

joshuamorton wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you've said applies to parking tickets too. You can't prove that the owner parked the vehicle. Tha owner is ultimately civily liable if the vehicle is parked in a way that it shouldn't be. Extending that same civil liability to the active operation, as opposed to only the consequences of active operation, seems perfectly reasonable.

> Tha owner is ultimately civily liable if the vehicle is parked in a way that it shouldn't be. Extending that same civil liability to the active operation, as opposed to only the consequences of active operation, seems perfectly reasonable. As this judgement reveals, such a suggestion is patently unreasonable , for the reasons listed in the judgement

Having read the order, it doesn't really justify the central claim, that these are criminal, and in my opinion a lot of the context cuts against that (the liability being only a fine and some other things).

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#670

Post by joshuamorton » Tue, Mar 10, 2026, 8:02 PM UTC

joshuamorton wrote: post #638

sjtgraham wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key difference is a parking ticket isn't $500.

The mentioned fines are $1-200, which is in the same range as parking tickets. I think the best argument is that license points are criminal in nature, but I don't really buy that.

And in fact the law at issue doesn't even assign points.