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Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

greenwald.substack.com

661–670 of 696 posts

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#661

I really like this passage: >It is always the case that there are benefits available from relinquishing core civil liberties: allowing infringements on free speech may reduce false claims and hateful ideas; allowing searches and seizures without warrants will likely help the police catch more criminals, and do so more quickly; giving up privacy may, in fact, enhance security. > But the core premise of the West genera…

I think part of the problem is a temptation to believe that we can have out cake and eat it too. If the people on charge of deciding when to use the cameras were morally perfect, we have all the upside and none of the downside. The problem is we live in a fallen world and that will simply never work. Nevertheless it is a siren song that causes us to repeatedly make the wrong trade

"we live in a fallen world"

derp

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#662
post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no government as effective at instituting necessary changes as a benevolent autocracy, nor any so effective at destruction as a malevolent one. If our democracy is sufficiently broken, if supermajority voter policy preferences continue to be dismissed by both parties, it might be that we just cannot survive under the old Constitutional order. The Right's open move towards a post-democratic future, and the pro…

> There's no government as effective at instituting necessary changes as a benevolent autocracy Autocracies have lots of issues around eg building a sufficiently capable bureaucracy that isn't too corrupt to do things. It can make it harder , not easier. Democracy can lean on democratic legitimacy, constitutional traditions, and a history of allowing power transitions without anyone losing their heads or launching a…

All of those can be mooted by the sort of dysfunction currently on offer.

Almost every bill for the past 15 years has been filibustered. More than half the Supreme Court is part of an organized partisan conspiracy, and a third has worked specifically fighting election laws to advantage their guy. The DHS stands as a rogue paramilitary that can be deployed when politically convenient as de facto martial law, the DOJ openly persecuting ethnically defined political opponents and daring Congress to do anything about it, when they're not trying to charge Congresspeople with crimes. People are being disappeared into concentration camps. We are unilaterally withdrawing from the military and economic empire that has served us since the 1940's, in the name of ethnic hatreds and Hitlerian brinksmanship. The economy now has more to do with the Fed chair than any pathetic exchange of goods and services we can string together.

This doesn't end well, and it's broken enough already that a return to Biden/Obama/Clinton type leadership couldn't possibly hope to fix it unless they can lock down leadership for the next couple generations; More damage can be done in a month than they can fix in four years. "Just win every election from now until the end of time" isn't a real strategy.

I don't know what comes next, but if we choose to burn the house down today rather than practice good maintenance, the next homeowner cannot succeed by employing good maintenance.

Similarly, if the neighbor burns your house down deliberately because he hates you, and you start the rebuild process without doing anything about your neighbor's existence, you shouldn't be surprised if you end up with more ashes.

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#663
post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy has no built in controls to stop oligarchs becoming a thing, and the people were a problem in the first place as they voted against measures that would prevent them. See all the people voting for Reagan, for example.

The US is only nominally democratic

With the population being what it is, it doesn't really matter.

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice. The government cannot collect and put the names of peaceful anti-government protestors into a government database; or show up at their homes when they violated no law; or the government issuing a subpoena to google for personal data about a man who wrote a one sentence letter to a DOJ prosecutor asking for leniency for the defendant in a case he read about. These are all actions taken by the government in respo…

Then you haven't really studied 1A law in a long time, if you ever did. These fact patterns have not been well tested in court. They look similar to some cases, but are quite distinguishable, too. They might be 1A violations because of the chilling effect they could have on speech, but I'm not going out on a limb to say with certainty that they are; and I don't know any competent attorney who would. > The government…

I have always been a civil trial attorney, much of the time before state Equity Judges ( generally more qualified than our law division judges ). It's been a very long time since law school ( admitted to the bar in 1977 ).

Having said that, my posts had nothing to do with the 'realities' of winning in court regarding the activities outlined. Rather my point is the activities are clearly unconstitutional by any conventional analysis by any qualified US attorney. Whether or not you could develop the requisite proofs is another matter entirely. But it is clear that the current administration is following the Orban playbook ( and of some South American authoritarian regimes ).

This is not 'business as usual' in any way, shape or form.

A US Citizen ( a retired lawyer if I recall ) read an article about a prosecution by the DOJ and the citizen emailed the prosecutor ( after getting his email from the judicial database ) and sent a short plea urging mercy for the asylum seeker. Five hours later he received an email from Google advising him the federal government had served Google with a subpoena demanding information about him. Then they followed up by knocking on his door.

There can be zero doubt that the subpoena upon Google violated due process. Being an administrative subpoena, there was no judge involved but due process ( eg probable cause ) is still required and - absent some wildly unimaginable set of unknown facts - there was clearly no probable cause here.

This administration is clearly in the process of gathering names of US citizens who hold beliefs Trump does not like. The larger question is what is Trump's intention in collecting such names? Based upon his actions in the past year, Americans shouldn't hold their breath hoping they are wholesome.

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed the news where our own state dept officials are on leaked calls hand selecting the anti Russian government of Ukraine weeks before their coup or the news where Merkel admitted we negotiated treaties with Russia over Ukraine in bad faith. The war started with our expansion of NATO, followed by couping Ukraines govt, multiple fake peace treaties, and finally Ukraine murdering thousands of culturally Russian…

Ah yes, the "culturally russian civilians" that... were mostly part of the ukraine army or the russian sponsored rebellion. Boy. How awful. > I count a war as started when someone starts murdering people w the military So saddam hussein started the second iraq-america war? Don't answer that. Also tell me more about your evidence of united states soldiers landing in ukraine and killing/capturing the existing governmen…

tell me more about your evidence of united states soldiers landing in ukraine and killing/capturing the existing government to replace it

We have the phone recordings of our government picking the new government BEFORE the coup. What part of that don’t you understand?

So saddam hussein started the second iraq-america war? Don't answer that.

Whatever your counterpoint is here it’s so weak I don’t even know what it is. Using the military to kill civilians in Eastern Ukraine was definitely the start of the war, you can save the attempt at cleverness.

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we can get there with ranked-choice voting. We really need to press hard until we get it.

Approval, not ranked-choice. Ranked-choice reduces transparency and understanding of the vote-counting process, disenfranchises an alarming percentage of lower-income voters, obstructs risk-limiting audits (which are essential for security), and is non-monotonic (increasing voter support for a candidate can make them lose). Further, ranked-choice doesn't actually fix the spoiler problem and won't eliminate two-party…

it's ironic that approval voting is better, but people therefore often wrongly think it's less optimal, when it's actually _more_ optimal.

https://web.archive.org/web/20190219005733/https://sites.goo...

you used to live across the street from me on harper street in berkeley by the way.

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#667
post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Approval, not ranked-choice. Ranked-choice reduces transparency and understanding of the vote-counting process, disenfranchises an alarming percentage of lower-income voters, obstructs risk-limiting audits (which are essential for security), and is non-monotonic (increasing voter support for a candidate can make them lose). Further, ranked-choice doesn't actually fix the spoiler problem and won't eliminate two-party…

I've heard the arguments for approval voting, and I'm sure it's all the things you mention and more, but people don't get it . I don't get it. I don't want to vote for both Hillary and Bernie. I want to vote for Bernie, and then only if Bernie can't win , would I let my vote go to Hillary. You can explain to me until you're blue in the face why approval is strictly better even in this situation, but I am emotionally…

LOL, people get it just fine. fargo adopted it by a 64% supermajority and st louis adopted it by a 68% supermajority.

https://approval.vote/

> You can explain to me until you're blue in the face why approval is strictly better even in this situation, but I am emotionally attached to my vote counting for Bernie more than any other candidate, so reason isn't going to work on my lizard brain.

but your actual strategy is to rank hillary in 1st because bernie can't win. or, in the case of my aunt, she preferred warren but voted biden to beat trump. she would have ranked them biden>warren>trump in a ranked election for that very reason. this is called "compromise strategy".

bro, approving both of them is better than being strategically forced to say that you prefer clinton to bernie or biden to warren.

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#668
post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Approval voting seems to me to be worse on all counts that the previous commenter was levying against ranked-choice. To your point, the spoiler effect seems like it would be much worse with approval than with a ranked ballot, since highly partisan voters would have little reason to approve of any candidate other than the single candidate they want in office. Approving of anyone else lessens their candidate's chance o…

>A ranked choice ballot at least requires you to assign a unique value to every candidate on the ballot: you can honestly rank your second choice without being concerned that doing so undermines your first. That's highly implementation dependent. Where I live we have ranked-choice ballots for local primary elections, while the local general elections are FPTP. State and Federal elections are all FPTP for primary and…

it's the worst of the commonly discussed alternatives.

https://www.rangevoting.org/BayRegsFig

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#669
post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Approval, not ranked-choice. Ranked-choice reduces transparency and understanding of the vote-counting process, disenfranchises an alarming percentage of lower-income voters, obstructs risk-limiting audits (which are essential for security), and is non-monotonic (increasing voter support for a candidate can make them lose). Further, ranked-choice doesn't actually fix the spoiler problem and won't eliminate two-party…

> Approval voting is cheap and easy to implement, dead simple to explain, count, and audit. Not so dead simple to vote, though. If you're a sincere voter and you prefer Alice to Bob and Bob to Charlie, do you approve of Alice, or both Alice and Bob? That choice has to be either strategic or very noisy. There seems to be some unavoidable complexity to voting methods: letting the voter deal with the complexity leads to…

this is dead simple. thousands of voters have had no problem. https://approval.vote/

if you really want to get into the game theory, here it is. https://www.rangevoting.org/RVstrat6

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#670
post #458
post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Approval voting is cheap and easy to implement, dead simple to explain, count, and audit. Not so dead simple to vote, though. If you're a sincere voter and you prefer Alice to Bob and Bob to Charlie, do you approve of Alice, or both Alice and Bob? That choice has to be either strategic or very noisy. There seems to be some unavoidable complexity to voting methods: letting the voter deal with the complexity leads to…

I agree with this. Ranked choice is easy to explain to a naive voter: everyone understands how a preference order works, and the result is "the candidate more people like the most". Counting the votes is (a bit) complicated, but I think the (minority of) people who get excited by implementation details out-smart themselves, by worrying that most people won't understand the details. Of course most people won't underst…

massively false based on actual data. https://clayshentrup.medium.com/star-voting-is-simpler-than-...
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