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The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

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Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#661

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

zbentley wrote: post #647
parineum wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good way to stop poor people from trying to sue anyone with better access to lawyers.

Poor people already cannot afford most legal services, and (other than a very small percentage of cases brought on a volunteer or nearly-volunteer basis at the goodwill of law firms) very rarely file suit without legal fees sought in restitution. Of those that don’t, it’s understood that recouping legal fees from lower income clients is far from guaranteed due to bankruptcy risk.

That doesn't cover SLAPP, where the purpose is not restitution, but, as the acronym puts it, a lawsuit "against public participation".

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#662

Post by anonymars »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #659
anonymars wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the type of people who think otherwise got the nude body scanners stopped back in the day ( https://www.wired.com/2013/01/tsa-abandons-nude-scanners/ ) Meanwhile it's not clear what it accomplishes to spend time advocating that the slightest pushback on any of this is pointless

Yes and the people who think that vaccines cause autism are now in power trying to kill vaccines…

You are in good faith equating TSA face scans and body scans with vaccination?

While at the same time arguing that they already know you're there, already have your picture from your id, and don't need updated pictures for better facial recognition?

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#663

Post by mmooss »

ibejoeb wrote: post #391
mmooss wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expert witnesses are not reliably credible authorities. They are people with credentials hired to help win lawsuits. I'm sure the author knows more than I do, but that doesn't say much.

It's not about his testimony on this particular issue. In fact, it does not appear that he has given any. It's about his qualifications to potentially testify. Even so, in American courts (in which he has previously qualified,) the qualification process is adversarial and involves both direct and cross-examination, so if he wasn't actually qualified, the opposing party would certainly argue as much.

The reality of expert witnesses is not that they are authoritative sources outside the courtroom, but witnesses for one party. It's a job - sometimes for people who didn't find much success in their field - and they are paid by the party that calls them to testify.

Everything in a US courtroom is adversarial; every witness is cross-examined and their credibility can be questioned.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#664

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

ibejoeb wrote: post #604
AdamN wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traffic signs are readable by almost anybody regardless of English language skills. A vision test is much more safety-valid than an English language test.

I disagree that traffic signs are readable regardless of language skills. Yes, it's just a matter of developing recognition for simple pictorial signs. You just have to learn it. If I put a French "No Vehicles" sign in Florida, nobody is going to have a clue what it means, even though there are no words on it, and that's dangerous. Not recognizing or incorrectly interpreting "Crash I-9 N/B Exp Right 2 Lanes Closed Me…

Well countries have been willing to do reciprocal agreements with the US and other countries since 1926.

https://internationaldrivingpermit.org/what-is-an-idp/

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#665

Post by mixmastamyk »

otterley wrote: post #372
Vicinity9635 wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"shall not be violated" leaves no loopholes. Just like the second amendment: >A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "shall not be infringed" and "shall not be violated" do not leave loopholes. It's quite clear.

I didn’t ask you what the words say; anyone can read them. I asked you why you believe, based on the historical evidence, that the Constitution isn’t supposed to be interpreted by our courts.

> interpreted by our courts.

I’m interested in this part. Obviously some interpretation is going to happen, but would like to know the law that supports it. Also what (if anything) limits “interpretation” from allowing a 180 degree opposite to what is written to occur.

Asking more generally, not about going into a building I don’t strictly need to.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#666

Post by figassis »

caseysoftware wrote: post #566
figassis wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is mostly security, but not to residents of the country. Those can enforce their rights. In my country, I can argue with airport security, and win. Foreigners can’t, so they follow whatever rules. A few times when landing in the US, security was extremely rude, I think just looking for an excuse (things like throwing your laptop a few feet away, while staring at you, etc). You take it bc you’re not home, and the c…

Reasonable hypothesis but not correct in the US. The point where you present your ticket+ID is before and separate from the physical screening. It could be anywhere from a few meters to dozens of meters separating them. At the screening stage, the agents do not know who you are or your nationality.

It's not about being recognized, it's about when you are asked to be patted down, having the courage to lie "I can't raise my arms over my head", knowing the risk of being caught is at worst not making this flight. For a foreigner it might be getting banned permanently from the country. Same concept as self censorship. You do what you're told and then you go enjoy your vacation.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#667

Post by tristor »

I remember flying before the TSA, it was pretty great in part because you could do things like go to the gate to meet arriving family, or walk your child to the gate before they departed as an unaccompanied minor, with the expectation someone was meeting them at the gate on the other side. There has never been a single observation or piece of information that has indicated anything other than the TSA is an unconstitutional waste of money doing security theatre to support a jobs program for societal rejects. All that said, I've been enrolled in Global Entry since it started, CLEAR since it started, and Pre-Check since it started (which later was included w/ Global Entry) because I have places to be and people to see, and I need to just get on with my life.

I really hate everything about the TSA, it fundamentally should not even exist as a national entity, and most of their processes and policies are not only illegal but also stupid. But, if you need to travel often there's not a lot you can do about it, you just have to deal with it or not travel. I'm a multiple million miler, been to over 75 different countries and nearly every US state, I travel at least 10 times per year and usually more, what else is there to do about it?

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#668

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

anonymars wrote: post #662
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and the people who think that vaccines cause autism are now in power trying to kill vaccines…

You are in good faith equating TSA face scans and body scans with vaccination? While at the same time arguing that they already know you're there, already have your picture from your id, and don't need updated pictures for better facial recognition?

Yes it’s both as illogical and neither is based on facts on the ground

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#669

Post by scott_w »

rkomorn wrote: post #652
ghaff wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but border control isn't security. I don't go through security when I arrive in the US either. (I do have global entry but that just means I usually go through immigration faster.) If I have a connecting flight after arriving in the US I do sometimes have to go through security again with my carryon but that's a function of airport layout.

Looks like even OP was confused about it so I guess it wasn't something to be made sense of.

Just to be clear: I understand the difference. What I couldn’t do was explain to someone who has no concept that customs are not a security check. Or that you don’t need customs for (effectively) internal flights. I suspect part of this is that in the UK, we don’t get many internal flights (beyond connections), so people don’t have an experience of just walking off a plane and out of the airport.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#670

Post by bz_bz_bz »

sigmoid10 wrote: post #544
mustyoshi wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to put into words, but you're eroding the social contract through your actions. People with conditions get accused of faking it all the time, and it sounds like you're actually faking it.

If he was doing that to get faster treatment at a hospital or even just a restaurant or something then I'd agree. But by doing it to get faster treatment at the TSA check he's literally doing everyone else a favour.

If they opted for a pat down for 6 years, then faster treatment clearly wasn’t the goal. Metal detector + swabbing is not faster than the scanner either.
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