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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#661

Post by gogusrl »

randerson wrote: post #538
maxdo wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're just religious about your own preferences. Prosche specifically is facing huge losses, and with this strategy is doomed to die. There are already rumors of potential bancrupcy. EVs grew 20% globally in 2025, with developing markets surging 40%+. When EVs under $100,000 can hit sub-2.5-second 0–60 mph (0–100 km/h), all this fake "benefit" talk about exhaust notes and luxury engine refinement sounds exactly like…

EVs as a whole are growing. Porsche however is struggling because of their "sports car" identity. Taycan sales dropped 22% year-over-year [0], and their 2025 EV sales only rose because the Macan EV is new and they discontinued the gas one in the EU. (Even then: Half of all Macan buyers worldwide went for the 11-year-old gas design over the EV.) The market for EV sports cars is soft. The Rimac Nevera R broke 24 perfor…

My theory is that people buy mass-market Porsche cars because the 718/911 guys tell everyone how cool these cars are, but not everyone wants or needs a kidney-busting two-seater, so they compromise with a Panamera or Macan.

If there's no electric 718/911 version to hype them up, there’s not going to be any demand. There's also the issue that they're known for their small sporty cars, yet they're trying to sell 5m-long sedans and 'soccer mom' SUVs and failing at it.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#662

Post by thomas_witt »

kobbs wrote: post #636
pjc50 wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Try driving 240+ km/h This is an entertainingly German-centric answer.

After all, this is what the performance oriented cars by all German manufacturers are made for. Even a VW Golf GTI will happily cruise at 250 km/h.

Engine-wise, yeah, it has the power. But try it, that's not something you really want to do.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#663

Post by PokemonNoGo »

jagermo wrote: post #654
hnben wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one buys a Porsche because they want a sensible car for their family or they need something with large storage I know two porsche-owners personally. One sometimes uses his porsche (non SUV, but the small fast one) to go on family vacations (with the kids cramped at the too small back seats, which seems funny to me). The other has an SUV and lives in the country with bad roads; They sometimes use their porsche to…

> The other has an SUV and lives in the country with bad roads; They sometimes use their porsche to commute to work and for everyday-stuff like shopping. That blows my mind. I guess its the same mindset as people who buy a mercedes "jeep" (don't know the product id) or range rover and live the middle of the city.

Sorry I'm lost (getting late over here). Wouldn't a Porsche SUV fit perfectly out in the country on bad roads? The Cayenne is made for it?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#664

Post by bz_bz_bz »

whatever1 wrote: post #334

Porsche was on the brink of bankruptcy. Then they started making SUVs. It turned out the SUVs are the ones that are bringing in all the cash to the company. The audience of Porsche SUVs (cayenne, macan) care about signaling wealth via the badge. But they mostly want an everyday car for their commute, groceries / kid pickup. No wonder the EVs options sell better. They have the badge, and are better at everyday tasks.…

The EV options sell better in Europe because they completely stopped selling the ICE Macan due to EU cybersecurity regs. In North America (the only market that hasn't seen a decrease in sales), they did a 180 and promised to keep selling the ICE SUVs into 2030 because EV adoption has massively disappointed. The new K1 is now going to be sold with a combustion engine first instead of as a fully-electric.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#665

Post by adrian_b »

jansper39 wrote: post #422
psychoslave wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly doubt any current car will stand longevity of those cars. The maintenance entry cost of anything with integrated electronic is just several order of magnitude in complexity.

Modern cars are far more reliable than old 'analogue' cars - primarily because of the integrated electronics. ECUs can detect when engines are running rich or lean, knocking or 100 other edge cases and adjust accordingly. Switch to an EV and it's even simpler, you can get away with a motor, battery, BMS and inverter and you can get just about any soapbox to move.

I am not so sure that modern cars are more reliable.

My father has used a traditional (European) car (which had no electronics except the rectifier diode bridge for the alternator) for 35 years (1973-2008), during which the car has been used every day for commuting to his job (an almost 2-hour round trip in a city with very crowded traffic) and during vacations it was used mainly on difficult mountain roads. He stopped using the car when he was too old, not because the car became unusable.

The car has been repaired from time to time, but almost all the repairs were done by my father himself, alone and in a short time (he had the service manuals for that car, but he was not any kind of mechanic by profession, he was a physicist). In the very few cases when the car was taken to a repair shop, that was for replacing some rusted parts of the car body, and once for machining the cylinder block, after several hundred thousand miles.

And this was not some unusually good car, many others were like this, if their owners took good care of them.

I doubt that a Tesla would live that long, in similar conditions, though it would have the advantage that the owner would not have to be skilled in using his hands in order to avoid to waste time and money for minor repairs, like with that "analog" car.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#666

Post by nielsbot »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #488
nielsbot wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but don't we need to stop burning fossil fuels?

No? I haven't seen a "peak oil" article or prediction in at least ten years. It would be GREAT to reduce our dependence, to make them cleaner, to make them more efficient, and to increase the use of renewables. But who is saying we have to "stop" oil and gas?

I don't think reaching peak oil is the worry. The worry is climate change.

> But who is saying we have to "stop" oil and gas?

People who are concerned about climate change? Should we not be?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#667

Post by randerson »

gogusrl wrote: post #661
randerson wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs as a whole are growing. Porsche however is struggling because of their "sports car" identity. Taycan sales dropped 22% year-over-year [0], and their 2025 EV sales only rose because the Macan EV is new and they discontinued the gas one in the EU. (Even then: Half of all Macan buyers worldwide went for the 11-year-old gas design over the EV.) The market for EV sports cars is soft. The Rimac Nevera R broke 24 perfor…

My theory is that people buy mass-market Porsche cars because the 718/911 guys tell everyone how cool these cars are, but not everyone wants or needs a kidney-busting two-seater, so they compromise with a Panamera or Macan. If there's no electric 718/911 version to hype them up, there’s not going to be any demand. There's also the issue that they're known for their small sporty cars, yet they're trying to sell 5m-lon…

The "soccer mom" SUVs are their best sellers and literally saved the company. I beg you to test-drive a Cayenne Turbo GT if you think they can't deliver a sports-car-like experience in a large SUV. Or a Macan GTS (which is only 7" longer than a 911 btw.)

The Taycan is pretty close to being an electric 911. There's a 718 EV coming out soon but Porsche realized there was not enough demand so now they're retrofitting a gas engine into the design.

The lack of demand for the 718 EV boils down to EVs being heavy, and therefore less chuckable than the gas one, and the lack of soul & engagement in cars without an engine. Solid state batteries will eventually solve the first problem. I'm not sure how we can solve the second one. Perhaps kids of today will grow up caring less about mechanical sounds.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#668

Post by david-gpu »

joe_mamba wrote: post #642
david-gpu wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Barely any bike infrastructure where I live, either. You can make it work. Give it a try someday.

How do you suggest you get to work by bike when work is 50 km away?

Moving closer. It is a shitty commute by any means of transport.

It is no wonder that you are jumping at everybody offering suggestions.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#669

Post by avidiax »

jansper39 wrote: post #446
avidiax wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't bought German ever, but everything I hear seems pretty negative. Some of the recent models have plastic timing chain guides and have turned the engine around so that the timing chains are in the back. The only innocent explanation is that the car is only meant to last 10 years at most, so saving the money on plastic instead of metal and screwing whoever owns the car when the timing chains need to be redone…

Putting the timing chain at the back of the engine away from the front is generally done to reduce torsional vibrations and tends to help with space claim, especially for pedestrian safety systems where you need a lot of travel space under the bonnet. But yeah, serviceability suffers. Electric water pumps are a great idea though, instead of having an aux belt with tensioners and pulleys, you have on single part that…

> Electric water pumps are a great idea

They are a great idea if they are reliable, or cheap and easy to replace. The BMW unit was neither.

The timing chain thing also came with plastic parts. Mount the timing chain at the back if it's needed for other goals, but don't cheap out on a bit of metal. It really seems like planned obsolescence.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#670

Post by jyounker »

coderenegade wrote: post #414
muzani wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do have a garage and 'fuel' is half the cost of my previous, smaller ICE. We're considering solar power to get it practically free. There's some nicer differences like leaving the air-conditioning on constantly because there's no pollution and it's also practically free. It's nice to have a giant battery instead of requiring an engine to constantly recharge it to run the electronics.

That's cost, not practicality. Like it or not, the EV isn't as flexible when it comes to ownership, because you need a place to charge it. A product that is less practical has to be cheaper to compete in the market.

Depends completely on the EV and usage patterns. Here's one of the more interesting points in the design space: https://silence-mobility.nissan.de/
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