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Apple M5 chip

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Re: Apple M5 chip

#661

They push these new generations out so quick, and with crazy performance boosts. Impressive

Meanwhile intel seems to be doing a big bunch of nothing much. And AMD seems busy playing house with OpenAI to catch up to nvidia on the GPU front.

Now if only Apple would sell these for use outside of their walled garden.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#663

Base models only: - M1 | 5 nm | 8 (4P+4E) | GPU 7–8 | 16-core Neural | Memory Bandwidth: 68.25 GB/s | Unified Memory: 16 GB | Geekbench6 ~2346 / 8346 - M2 | 5 nm (G2) | 8 (4P+4E) | GPU 8–10 | 16-core Neural | Memory Bandwidth: 100 GB/s | Unified Memory: 24 GB | Geekbench6 ~2586 / 9672 - M3 | 3 nm (first-gen) | 8 (4P+4E) | GPU 8–10 | 16-core Neural | Memory Bandwidth: 100 GB/s | Unified Memory: 24 GB | Geekbench6 ~296…

Let's see if I can turn this into an ASCII table and have it survive HN's reformatting.

    +------+------------------+--------------+----------+----------------+-------------------+-------------------+---------------------------+
    | Chip | Process          | CPU Cores    | GPU      | Neural Engine  | Memory Bandwidth  | Unified Memory    | Geekbench6 (Single/Multi) |
    +------+------------------+--------------+----------+----------------+-------------------+-------------------+---------------------------+
    | M1   | 5 nm             | 8 (4P+4E)    | 7–8      | 16-core Neural | 68.25 GB/s        | 16 GB             | ~2346 / 8346              |
    | M2   | 5 nm (G2)        | 8 (4P+4E)    | 8–10     | 16-core Neural | 100 GB/s          | 24 GB             | ~2586 / 9672              |
    | M3   | 3 nm (first-gen) | 8 (4P+4E)    | 8–10     | 16-core Neural | 100 GB/s          | 24 GB             | ~2965 / 11565             |
    | M4   | 3 nm (second-gen)| 10 (4P+6E)   | 8–10     | 16-core Neural | 120 GB/s          | 32 GB             | ~3822 / 15031             |
    | M5   | 3 nm (third-gen) | 10 (4P+6E)   | 10       | 16-core Neural | 153 GB/s          | up to 32 GB       | ~4133 / 15437 (9-core)    |
    +------+------------------+--------------+----------+----------------+-------------------+-------------------+---------------------------+

Re: Apple M5 chip

#664

Base models only: - M1 | 5 nm | 8 (4P+4E) | GPU 7–8 | 16-core Neural | Memory Bandwidth: 68.25 GB/s | Unified Memory: 16 GB | Geekbench6 ~2346 / 8346 - M2 | 5 nm (G2) | 8 (4P+4E) | GPU 8–10 | 16-core Neural | Memory Bandwidth: 100 GB/s | Unified Memory: 24 GB | Geekbench6 ~2586 / 9672 - M3 | 3 nm (first-gen) | 8 (4P+4E) | GPU 8–10 | 16-core Neural | Memory Bandwidth: 100 GB/s | Unified Memory: 24 GB | Geekbench6 ~296…

Interesting to see that over 5 years (M1 was 2020), the benchmark performance has not quite doubled. Is this an indictment of Moore's law, or just Apple over-speccing the M1 and slowly decreasing that over time?

Re: Apple M5 chip

#665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Why cannot I not punch in a password while Face ID is working? If I'm skiing, I know Face ID isn't gong to work, stop making me wait. Funny, a similar thing has been driving me crazy on my Ubuntu 20.04 laptop with fingerprint login. When unlocking, I can either enter a password or use fingerprint. On boot, I am not allowed to enter a password until I fail with fingerprint. If I use fingerprint to log in on boot,…

I think this is a GNOME thing...the keychain by default has the same password as the login password, so logging in with the password unlocks it too. fingerprint login doesn't unlock it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38527876 , https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/GNOME/Keyring

Yeah, I've resigned myself to that. The part that irks me is that it doesn't present a password prompt (on initial login) until fingerprint attempts are exhausted.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#666

Base models only: - M1 | 5 nm | 8 (4P+4E) | GPU 7–8 | 16-core Neural | Memory Bandwidth: 68.25 GB/s | Unified Memory: 16 GB | Geekbench6 ~2346 / 8346 - M2 | 5 nm (G2) | 8 (4P+4E) | GPU 8–10 | 16-core Neural | Memory Bandwidth: 100 GB/s | Unified Memory: 24 GB | Geekbench6 ~2586 / 9672 - M3 | 3 nm (first-gen) | 8 (4P+4E) | GPU 8–10 | 16-core Neural | Memory Bandwidth: 100 GB/s | Unified Memory: 24 GB | Geekbench6 ~296…

Serious questions. How is Asahi these days? Is it ready as a daily driver? Is it getting support from Apple or are they hostile to it? Are there missing features? And can I run KDE on it?

On macbook air M1 Asahi is pretty usable when it comes to hardware support. And been usable for at least 1 year.

Though either Fedora itself, how it built with Asahi or just running it with little disk space end up with freeze on boot after random updates. Twice, once without even rpmfusion enabled. Either some weird btrfs issue or I dont know what.

Like I'm Linux dude for two decades and dont do anything fancy, so this is weird. Switched to Asahi Ubuntu on ext4 and it working great so far.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably due to the Electron bug[1]. A lot of common apps haven't patched up yet. I also have an M2 Pro with 32GB of memory. When I A/B test with Electron apps running vs without, the lag disappears when all the unpatched Electron apps are closed out. 1. https://avarayr.github.io/shamelectron/ Here's a script I got from somewhere that shows unpatched Electron apps on your system: Edit: HN nerfed the script. Foun…

unpatched include Asana, Bitwarden, Dropbox… some pretty high-profile apps

Yes, and 1Password up until today!

Re: Apple M5 chip

#668

Base models only: - M1 | 5 nm | 8 (4P+4E) | GPU 7–8 | 16-core Neural | Memory Bandwidth: 68.25 GB/s | Unified Memory: 16 GB | Geekbench6 ~2346 / 8346 - M2 | 5 nm (G2) | 8 (4P+4E) | GPU 8–10 | 16-core Neural | Memory Bandwidth: 100 GB/s | Unified Memory: 24 GB | Geekbench6 ~2586 / 9672 - M3 | 3 nm (first-gen) | 8 (4P+4E) | GPU 8–10 | 16-core Neural | Memory Bandwidth: 100 GB/s | Unified Memory: 24 GB | Geekbench6 ~296…

And the fastest M4 max was already fastest single and multicore CPU by a decent margin, while the fastest non-Apple CPU was only specialized for single or multi.

The single thread performance for modern high performance CPUs are all very close to each other. Apple's latest usually has a small advantage because they're the first to use TSMC's latest nodes, which is good for something like 15-20%.

The fastest multicore CPUs are the ones with a lot of cores, e.g. 64+ core Threadrippers. These have approximately the same single-core performance as everything else from the same generation because single-core performance isn't affected much by number of cores or TDP, and they use the same cores.

Everyone also uses Geekbench to compare things to Apple CPUs but the latest Geekbench multi-core is trash: https://dev.to/dkechag/how-geekbench-6-multicore-is-broken-b...

Re: Apple M5 chip

#670
post #2

This is only the base model, no upgrades yet for the Pro/Max version. The memory bandwidth is 153GB/s which is not enough to run viable open source LLM models properly.

Looks like the M5 base has LPDDR5x-9600, which works out to 153.6 from base M4's 120GB/s DDR5x-7500. The Pro/Max versions have more memory controllers, 16, 24 and 32 channels accordingly. The 32 channel M5 top-end version will have 614GB/s by my calculations.

It would take 48 channels of DDR5x-9600 to match a 3090's memory bandwidth, so the situation is unlikely to change for a couple of years when DDR6 arrives I guess

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