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I ditched Docker for Podman

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Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#661

Post by const_cast »

Bnjoroge wrote: post #481
const_cast wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

what they described is a fairly common set up in damn near most enterprises

Yeah most enterprise software barely works and is an absolute maintenance nightmare because they're sprawling distrivuted systems.

Ask yourself: how does an enterprise with 1000 engineers manage to push a feature out 1000x slower than two dudes in a garage? Well, processes, but also architecture.

Distributed systems slow down your development velocity by many orders of magnitude, because they create extremely fragile systems and maintenance becomes extremely high risk.

We're all just so used to the fragility and risk we might think it's normal. But no, it's really not, it's just bad. Don't do that.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#662

Post by const_cast »

latentsea wrote: post #505
const_cast wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I like how you didn't even ask for any context that would help you evaluate whether or not their chosen architecture is actually suitable for their environment before just blurting out advice that may or may not be applicable (though you would have no idea, not having enquired).

Much like parallel programming, distributed systems have a very small window of requirement.

Really less than 1% of systems need to be distributed. Are you Google? No? Then you probably don't need it.

The rest is just for fun. Or, well, pain. Usually pain.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#663

Post by sc68cal »

devjab wrote: post #120
sc68cal wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone has to manage your kubernetes environment. Depending on the nature of your workload, it may not be worth running kubernetes and instead just run everything via podman on your hosts. It really depends on how much investment you have in Kubernetes YAMLs.

I suspect a lot of places pour them into Azure Kubernetes Services and Azure Container Apps for this exact reason. I assume other cloud provices have similar services. Though as someone who's used a lot of Azure infrastructure as code with Bicep and also done the K8s YAML's I'm not sure which is more complicated at this point to be honest. I suspect that depends on your k8s setup of course.

This is very true. My circumstances are a little unusual where using Azure costed more than running it internally on VMs, and running k8s or an equivalent didn't really add much value since I would have had to manage that, and my workload is uniform where each VM runs the same services so just running a podman pod was easier. There was no need for dynamic scheduling and scaling would just be launching more VMs and running more podman pods, and the entire deployment is just an Ansible playbook that preps the VM after boot then launches the containers. It didn't make sense to have another kind of YAML file to deploy the containers.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#664

Post by weberc2 »

akerl_ wrote: post #419
weberc2 wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm of the opinion that large companies should be paying for the software they use regardless of whether it's open source or not, because software isn't free to develop. So assuming you're paying for the software you use, you still have the problem that you are subject to your internal procurement processes. If your internal procurement processes make it really painful to add a new seat, then maybe the processes need…

So, I'm of two thoughts here: 1. As parallel commenters have pointed out, no. Plenty of open source developers exist who aren't interested in getting paid for their open source projects. You can tell this because some open source projects sell support or have donation links or outright sell their open source software and some do not. This line of thinking seems to come out of some utopian theoretical world where open…

I think I fully agree, although to expound on (1) I don't think that is the kind of software that any company should want to depend on for anything remotely important. I'm sure there are counter examples where you get a high quality project that doesn't require or accept donations, but I think these will be exceedingly few and far between. It seems like it's in the company's best interest to make sure the development for a dependency isn't going to go away for lack of funding?

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#665

Post by latentsea »

const_cast wrote: post #662
latentsea wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how you didn't even ask for any context that would help you evaluate whether or not their chosen architecture is actually suitable for their environment before just blurting out advice that may or may not be applicable (though you would have no idea, not having enquired).

Much like parallel programming, distributed systems have a very small window of requirement. Really less than 1% of systems need to be distributed. Are you Google? No? Then you probably don't need it. The rest is just for fun. Or, well, pain. Usually pain.

I like how you didn't even enquire as to what size organisation they worked in order to determine if it might actually be applicable in their case.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#666

Post by const_cast »

latentsea wrote: post #665
const_cast wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much like parallel programming, distributed systems have a very small window of requirement. Really less than 1% of systems need to be distributed. Are you Google? No? Then you probably don't need it. The rest is just for fun. Or, well, pain. Usually pain.

I like how you didn't even enquire as to what size organisation they worked in order to determine if it might actually be applicable in their case.

I never said it was applicable to them, in fact I said the opposite:

> Obviously that ship has sailed for you, but I mean in the general sense.

In the general sense, no, you don't need a distributed system. Even if you have billions of dollars worth of revenue - no, you don't need a distributed system. I know, because I've worked on monoliths that service hundreds of thousands of users and generate billions in revenue.

If you're making YouTube, maybe you need a distributed system. Are you making YouTube? Probably not.

You can, of course, choose to make a distributed system anyway. If you want to decrease your development velocity 1000x and introduce unbelievable amounts of complexity and risk.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#668

Post by lpln3452 »

Most projects only offer docker compose files and podman compose failed with too many of them contrary to developer claims.

I did not want the hassle of writing new quadlets for every project so I just went back to rootless Docker.

Also I believe the `podman generate systemd` mentioned in the article is now deprecated.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#669

Post by latentsea »

const_cast wrote: post #666
latentsea wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how you didn't even enquire as to what size organisation they worked in order to determine if it might actually be applicable in their case.

I never said it was applicable to them, in fact I said the opposite: > Obviously that ship has sailed for you, but I mean in the general sense. In the general sense, no, you don't need a distributed system. Even if you have billions of dollars worth of revenue - no, you don't need a distributed system. I know, because I've worked on monoliths that service hundreds of thousands of users and generate billions in revenu…

We're there at least 1000 engineers working on that system you worked on?

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#670

Post by const_cast »

latentsea wrote: post #669
const_cast wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said it was applicable to them, in fact I said the opposite: > Obviously that ship has sailed for you, but I mean in the general sense. In the general sense, no, you don't need a distributed system. Even if you have billions of dollars worth of revenue - no, you don't need a distributed system. I know, because I've worked on monoliths that service hundreds of thousands of users and generate billions in revenu…

We're there at least 1000 engineers working on that system you worked on?

Yes, 1500 or so.
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