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We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

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Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#661

Post by zb3 »

freefaler wrote: post #406

13 years ago, Cory Doctorow warned us: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbYXBJOFgeI So basically market forces and profit optimization is at work here as always. However, if we can still unlock the boot loader and install Lineage OS or something like that and have a way to pay for developers to release their apps on stores like f-droid we can use the hardware. The biggest problem with having freedom to use our devices…

> However, if we can still unlock the boot loader and install Lineage OS or something like that

This is based on hacks and unsustainable, because now even Pixels do not release their device trees. Expect them to drop support for this entirely in a few years.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#662

Post by guerrilla »

kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

> I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account".

This won't work out for you. It just turns into technically being able to, but it being practically impossible. In Sweden (i.e. basically your future), we're already there.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#663

Post by reaperducer »

sokoloff wrote: post #655
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

> I called their support line for a lost card, and had to go through to second level support because I didn't have the app. What’s the alternative? The bank sending out a debit card to anyone who calls up and says “I’m @kristov, trust me…” You were not able to served by the standard path, because you couldn’t authenticate yourself via the standard mechanism. You still got service by an alternate path. No different fr…

What’s the alternative? The bank sending out a debit card to anyone who calls up and says “I’m @kristov, trust me…”

Are you under the impression that this wasn't a solved problem for the half-century before "apps?"

Yes, there was some tiny fraction of fraud, but it's not like adding all these layers upon layers of technology has fixed anything. The difference is that instead of getting ripped off by one of the people in your own town, anyone anywhere on the planet can rip you off now.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#664

Post by [deleted] »

dataflow wrote: post #653
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

Can you make an argument as to how this is different from having to have an account with, say, your ISP?

[deleted]

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#665

Post by xandrius »

sokoloff wrote: post #655
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

> I called their support line for a lost card, and had to go through to second level support because I didn't have the app. What’s the alternative? The bank sending out a debit card to anyone who calls up and says “I’m @kristov, trust me…” You were not able to served by the standard path, because you couldn’t authenticate yourself via the standard mechanism. You still got service by an alternate path. No different fr…

Not sure if you're genuinely asking because there are a dozen proven ways to verify identity or residency either digitally and physically without being locked down to 2 mobile OSes owned and controlled by 2 American companies.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#666

Post by xandrius »

throwaway31131 wrote: post #192
makeitdouble wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google and Apple have more power than most nations. To push further, Google and Apple have basically as much power as the US. The UK going after Apple, only to get rebutted by the US is the most simple instance of it. International treaties pushed by the US strongly protecting it's top corporations is the more standard behavior. Any entity fighting the duopoly is effectively getting into a fight with the US.

> To push further, Google and Apple have basically as much power as the US. If this is true then why is Tim Cook visiting Trump? Shouldn’t it be the other way around.

How feeble they might be in today's political arena, optics are still important.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#667

Post by Luker88 »

So many people paraphrasing Stallman and GPL, and so few realizing that without legal enforcement these problems will keep happening over and over again.

Yet there is more BSD and MIT code than ever.

Android is full of open source stuff. GPL3 would have prevented this. We've all been bamboozled and we are starting to realize it.

I wonder if any project will start switching license. Unlikely, but one can dream.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#669

Post by rkagerer »

kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

Add "can't participate in society without agreeing to user-hostile Terms of Service clauses, such as indemnities, behavior profiling, and opted-in marketing subscriptions."

It's amazing where those dark patterns are cropping up (government services, SPCA, etc).

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#670

Post by [deleted] »

sokoloff wrote: post #655
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

> I called their support line for a lost card, and had to go through to second level support because I didn't have the app. What’s the alternative? The bank sending out a debit card to anyone who calls up and says “I’m @kristov, trust me…” You were not able to served by the standard path, because you couldn’t authenticate yourself via the standard mechanism. You still got service by an alternate path. No different fr…

[deleted]
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