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I'd rather read the prompt

claytonwramsey.com

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Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#661

Post by Arch-TK »

I will often write a bunch of stuff and then use an LLM to pre-process it a little bit and suggest some improvements. I will then work through the differences and consider them individually and either accept them, or use them to write my own improvements. This is kind of like having an okay editor working for you. No substitute for a real editor, but it means that a: what I intended to say is preserved, b: there's no additional waffle (the prompt includes instructions not to expand on any topic, but only ever to summarise where possible), c: everything still goes by me in the end, and if it doesn't feel like something I would actually write then it doesn't get used.

I believe that it has improved my writing productivity somewhat, especially when I'm tired and not completely on the ball. Although I don't usually reach for this most of the time (e.g. not for this comment).

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#662

Post by StefanBatory »

scarface_74 wrote: post #33
StefanBatory wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, this part > I didn’t realize how much that could throw things off until I saw an example where the object started moving in a strange way when it hit that point. Would feel off, because why change the person? And even if it's intented, then I'd say it's not formal to do in an assignement.

These are art students not English writers. If I were a teacher I would think this is more authentic. LLMs don’t make this kind of mistake in its default house style.

Hmm, fair enough.

Also the point about default LLM settings not doing that is a good point.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#663

Post by matthewdgreen »

bonoboTP wrote: post #44
matthewdgreen wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's challenging. Assignments (and particularly programming assignments) were by far the larger and more difficult part of my CS degree, and also the place where I learned the most. I cannot imagine losing that portion of my education and just replacing it with a few exams.

That's how it works in Germany. Usually assignments are either optional or you just have to get 50% of the total assignment marks over the semester to be admitted to the exam (written or often oral, in person). Then your grade is entirely based on the exam. Hand-holding throughout the semester assignment-to-assignment, checking attendance etc. is more an Anglo-specific thing where students are treated as kids instead…

I don’t think there’s anything childish about assigning large-scale programming assignments. I had to do everything from implement a compiler to building a ray tracer as an undergrad, and it set me up very well for an independent career as a software developer at a research lab.

As a professor today, assignments are the place where I’m happy to throw my students into the “deep end” (go learn a new language and a set of library toolkits while also learning this skill.) Exams just don’t provide that experience. Worse, students tend to cram for exams which is the worst way to retain information. I can’t even imagine thinking that the two are comparable in terms of retention and skill-building.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#664

Post by senordevnyc »

palata wrote: post #148
laurentlb wrote: post #127

There are many ways to use LLMs. The issue, IMO, is that some people throw in a one-shot, short prompt, and get a generic, boring output. "Garbage in, generic out." Here's how I actually use LLMs: - To dump my thoughts and get help organizing them. - To get feedback on phrasing and transitions (I'm not a native speaker). - To improve tone, style (while trying to keep it personal!), or just to simplify messy sentences…

> would you really rather read all the prompts and drafts instead of the final version? I think you missed the point of the article. They did not mean it literally: it's a way to say that they are interested in what you have to say. And that is the point that is extremely difficult to make students understand. When a teacher asks a student to write about a historical event, it's not just some kind of ceremony on the…

* I think you missed the point of the article. They did not mean it literally: it's a way to say that they are interested in what you have to say.*

Maybe an LLM could have helped the writer say what they meant to.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#665

Post by dogleash »

laurentlb wrote: post #127

There are many ways to use LLMs. The issue, IMO, is that some people throw in a one-shot, short prompt, and get a generic, boring output. "Garbage in, generic out." Here's how I actually use LLMs: - To dump my thoughts and get help organizing them. - To get feedback on phrasing and transitions (I'm not a native speaker). - To improve tone, style (while trying to keep it personal!), or just to simplify messy sentences…

>- To improve tone, style (while trying to keep it personal!), or just to simplify messy sentences.

Ironically enough, as I was reading your post this is what convinced me it was written by ChatGPT.

FWIW, the initial draft you gave to chatgpt is better than what you posted.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#667

Post by palata »

senordevnyc wrote: post #664
palata wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> would you really rather read all the prompts and drafts instead of the final version? I think you missed the point of the article. They did not mean it literally: it's a way to say that they are interested in what you have to say. And that is the point that is extremely difficult to make students understand. When a teacher asks a student to write about a historical event, it's not just some kind of ceremony on the…

* I think you missed the point of the article. They did not mean it literally: it's a way to say that they are interested in what you have to say.* Maybe an LLM could have helped the writer say what they meant to.

Maybe if people were more used to reading and less to copy-pasting into LLMs, they would understand the article.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#668

Post by palata »

valenterry wrote: post #638
palata wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, if the information I need is in the documentation, then I don't need the LLM. If it is not in the documentation, then the LLM will invent stuff that could be there but that isn't, and it's actually a loss of time.

> In my experience, if the information I need is in the documentation, then I don't need the LLM need is a strong word. Do you need to be able to do ctrl+F? Not really, you can just read it all. But maybe it's easier to do ctrl+F. Same with LLM. Just imagine it as a fuzzy ctrl+F. Can be useful.

The thing is, being able to read documentation is a skill.

Being really good at ctrl+F / LLM is not the same. I learn a lot just browsing through documentation, without searching anything in particular.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#670

Post by DrillShopper »

dsego wrote: post #609
concordDance wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, a future where diplomas are just noise and employers stop caring about them and thus young people stop wasting years of their lives "learning" something they don't care about sounds like a huge improvement. LLM cheaters might incidentally be doing society a service.

They will only learn what's needed to "get the job done" for whatever it means at that moment, and we could potentially see more erosion in technical abilities and work quality. You don't know what you don't know, and without learning things that you don't care about, you loose the chance to expand your knowledge outside of your comfort zone.

> They will only learn what's needed to "get the job done" for whatever it means at that moment

I graduated university around the turn of the century, long before the current AI boom started, and the majority of my classmates were like that. Learning the bare minimum to escape a class isn't new especially if you're only taking that class because you have to because every adult in your life drilled into you that you'll be a homeless failure if you don't go to college and get a degree. The LLMs make that easier, but the university, if the goal wasn't just to take your tuition dollars to enrich a vast administrator class instead of cover the costs of employing the professors teaching you, could offset that with more rigorous testing or oral exams at the end of the class.

The real lesson I learned during my time in university is that the two real edges that elite universities give you (as a student) are 1) social connections to the children of the rich and leaders in the field that you can mine for recommendations and 2) a "wow" factor on your resume. You can't really get the first at a state school or community college, and you definitely can't get the second at a state school or community college, despite learning similar if not the same material in a given field of study.

It hasn't been about (just) the learning for a long time.

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