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I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

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Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#661

Post by Suppafly »

iandanforth wrote: post #232

On the off chance you're interested in school lunches I highly recommend watching videos of Japanese school lunches on YouTube. There's a bunch out there now and if you were raised in the American system it will probably blow your mind. The idea that lunches can be freshly made, on site, out of healthy ingredients and children are active participants in serving and cleaning up is just crazy. When I encountered it for…

>children are active participants in serving and cleaning up is just crazy

They also clean the classrooms and hallways.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#663

Post by Suppafly »

yongjik wrote: post #284

South Korea started dabbling in free school lunches around 2001 - when a few schools started it. It gained momentum, and then it became a huge debate in 2011, when Seoul's mayor somehow decided he hated free lunches so much that he arranged a referendum, and said he would quit if people didn't agree with him on the matter. He did quit. Fast forward to 2025, and now free school lunches are nearly ubiquitous. Once peop…

>But you don't have to pay for a gratuitous system of bureaucracy

This is what's frustrating about America. There is so much bureaucracy that exists only to pay for itself, and I suppose, provide a few jobs, but you're an unreasonable socialist if you point out that it'd be cheaper just to not keep track of who needs to pay and give food to everyone for free instead.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#664

Post by Suppafly »

kibwen wrote: post #610
titzer wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing that changes behavior is consequences. Thus fines and a functioning justice system are born. Somehow shame doesn't work anymore.

> Somehow shame doesn't work anymore. We don't need to wonder. Shame as a mechanism only works in social contexts that feature a high degree of social dependency. In olden days, if all your neighbors hated you to the point of dissociating with you, that could be tantamount to a death sentence (who's going to share food with you when your harvest fails or take care of you when your household falls ill?); that's a soci…

>Economic transactions have replaced social dependency.

The flipside of this is that a lot of situations have improved. You can divorce your abusive spouse now instead of your priest telling you to just accept the abuse because god wills it. Everyone whining about the downfall of society seems to forget that it didn't actually work for everyone before.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#665

Post by jacknews »

trollbridge wrote: post #643
jacknews wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say free restaurants for everyone, that's a ridiculous extrapolation. But it is the responsibility of a decent modern society to ensure kids get at least a basic level of care and education. Morally, and in fact in the interests of having a decently educated and functional society. For foodstamp groceries, are you expecting the kids to prepare their own lunch? It seems like another callous 'personal responsi…

Our "decent modern society" already does this, because the government SNAP program guarantees that anyone for whom the standard food budget is not met by their income receives government support. Groceries, however, are expected to be bought by parents and then meals prepared for their children. I don't expect children to prepare their own lunch, but I do expect their parents to - and the same for breakfast, dinner,…

Again, just provide the kids themselves with decent (not stratified) meals, rather than tying it to parental responsibility or otherwise. It's like you're trying to make a mean society.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#666

Post by southernplaces7 »

Rhapso wrote: post #651
mystified5016 wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting this upset over a grammar joke is not healthy.

Assuming this message is in good faith, I appreciate your concern for my mental health. I appear to have attracted the trolls, which is ok. That happens when you stand up to them. I don't tolerate bullies going ignored. I'm serious, but not as upset as you may be concerned.

Please, do get over yourself. It was a silly grammar joke.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#667

Post by jacknews »

ponector wrote: post #617
jacknews wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Free education means no one will value it" Ridiculous. Of course, if it's free, then it's just the default, and some people will strive to be better than 'the masses' and pay for private education. But in any case, your whole society gets decently educated, which makes everyone richer, in every way.

I'm from a country where university degree can be easily obtained for free. As a result: 1. Students usually are not interested in attending classes, like at the middle school. 2. Bachelor/masters degrees means nothing as everyone has one.

There's a big difference between 'degree for free' and 'education for free' I think.

One is just worthless paper, the other is equal opportunity for everyone to actually attain the standard required for a degree.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#668

Post by Suppafly »

verisimi wrote: post #361
yojo wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not denying food to the parents, you are denying food to the children. They did not choose to be born, and they certainly didn’t choose the fiscal responsibility of their parents. Maybe there is room in there to shame the parents or give them a slap on the wrist, but the kids are blameless and denying them food makes you probably a monster.

[flagged]

>And then, why stop at lunches? Why not give all children breakfast and dinner too, and buy them good clothes to wear?

I'm in favor of all of that. We're trying to have a society here, not sure what your problem is.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#669

Post by erikerikson »

Aurornis wrote: post #654
erikerikson wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your math and appreciate the insight within it. At the same time, PTAs accept cash which when not being spent on private school is available. The challenge is getting those parents to allocate it when it will be spread across the entire student body. Far more impactful is the factor of alignment of incentives that given wealthy families' generally greater proximity to power can deliver funding. I liked this: it…

> At the same time, PTAs accept cash which when not being spent on private school is available. I think this is magical thinking underlying the concept: That wealthy parents will step up to provide money to privately fund the public schools for everyone. We have plenty of evidence that the is just isn’t the case, though. People spend that money on things like sending their kids to school with their own lunches and hi…

We are wealthy parents who stepped up and gave substantial amounts to the PTA

We made our decision (noted before) when the school spent its energy to manage us rather than fix problems and serve our student. To be fair, there were ties they had no control over but they definitely failed in ways they could have done better too. When things that matter to us are out of our power we put them back under our power to the extent we can.

The problem with defection is the large scale/long term reduced prosperity trajectory.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#670

Post by Suppafly »

verisimi wrote: post #370
mschuster91 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And then, why stop at lunches? Why not give all children breakfast and dinner too, and buy them good clothes to wear? Indeed: Why not? Certainly a better investment than yet another round of tax cuts for billionaires.

How about this: we give all people all meals, clothes, housing, heating (all essentials) and spending money so that they can explore their interests, travel, etc?

>How about this: we give all people all meals, clothes, housing, heating (all essentials) and spending money so that they can explore their interests, travel, etc?

Now you're talking, let's do it. UBI FTW.

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