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Pope Francis has died

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Re: Pope Francis has died

#661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you think that would have even the slightest chance of changing anything?

So never speak against brutal aggressors who commit war crimes? That seems to be antithetical to Christian values.

where did I say that? I am merely saying, that what WAS said might have higher chance of helping

Re: Pope Francis has died

#662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you think that would have even the slightest chance of changing anything?

No but it puts the ball on their court

no, it doesnt. What my point is, is that it would have done NOTHING, whereas the message he did send probably had higher chances, and is atleast something someone might listen to, even if they dont follow the advice.

(well except ofcourse the corrupt dictator in ukraine, so it naturally falls on deaf ears)

Re: Pope Francis has died

#663
post #13

I wonder whether we will have another Jesuit Pope. Jesuits are supposed to be generally very education focused, more progressive (especially w.r.t science) and stand less on ceremony. I know nothing about how the College of Cardinals work, but if they're anything like other political voting bodies, one of two outcomes are possible: a swing to the Right (and toward tradition), recognizing the current balance of power…

Francis spent the last couple of years creating new cardinals to stack the College in what - he hoped - was a more progressive direction. But the College has a mind of its own, and there is going to be some furious horse trading happening behind the scenes to steer the result in one direction or the other.

> Francis spent the last couple of years creating new cardinals to stack the College in what - he hoped - was a more progressive direction.

I don't think that was necessarily what he was doing.

He tried to rebalance it to include a lot more cardinals from the developing world–who on average tend to be more conservative, at least on some issues. He arguably avoided the more outspoken conservatives, but he would have caught up a lot of quieter conservatives in the process.

Whereas, if he just wanted to stack it with progressives, he would have focused on adding cardinals from the developed world, where Catholic progressivism is arguably the strongest.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#664

In 2021, during a visit to the Greek island of Mytilene, Pope Francis delivered one of the finest speeches I've ever read: > This great basin of water, the cradle of so many civilizations, now looks like a mirror of death. Let us not let our sea (mare nostrum) be transformed into a desolate sea of death (mare mortuum). Let us not allow this place of encounter to become a theatre of conflict. Let us not permit this “s…

I am really sorry for pope francis's death. I truly am. But to me, this was the first time that I ever saw that vatican has its .va and vatican.va .... Out of curiosity, Who hosts the holy servers? Again I don't want to demean anyone's death.

> Out of curiosity, Who hosts the holy servers?

The Dicastery for Communcation [0]. They're ASN 8978, and geolocation for all their IP addresses says that they're actually in the Vatican city state.

[0] https://www.comunicazione.va/en.html

Re: Pope Francis has died

#665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

does it really matter if it can be described as cognition or not? to me these models are useful for how effective they are, and that's literally it. the processes going on within them are extremely complex and at times very impressive, and whether some arbitrarily undefined word applies or not does not really matter. I think sometimes people forget that words are not maths or logic. when words come into language, no…

does it really matter if it can be described as cognition or not? Yes...it does. "AI" aka modern flavor LLMs as we understand them today are just doing certain things thats humans can do but orders of magnitude faster. What exactly is impressive about it being able to succinctly sum up any topic under the Sun aside from the speed? It will never create a new genre of music. It will never create a new style of art from…

isn't it funny that half the time when you see criticism of LLMs it's almost like the words have been stolen from someone else?

the opinion you're parroting here completely misses the point of LLMs. their purpose is not to start artistic movements or liberally think for themselves and no one is claiming it is. their purpose is to accelerate information retrieval and translation and programming tasks, which they by and large are incredible at. even if they had the capacity to invent artistic movements, which in theory they most certainly do, starting an artistic movement is pretty much intrinsically a human thing, and it requires desire, inclination, trust and a grounding in the real world, such as it is. your "spark of ingenuity" is not lacking because of some issue or lack of creativity, it's lacking because it's not the point and no one wants it to be.

whether it is "cognition" or not is completely irrelevant to their purpose and use, and its a complete waste of time trying to litigate if it is or not because the word in itself is poorly defined. if you're trying to figure out if j=k but you can't define j or k, and you do know that k isn't a big factor in the usefulness of the system, then what is the point? is it jealousy? fear? I assure you, LLMs are not a threat to the special ingenuity of your mind

this opinion is the equivalent of watching the invention of the pocket calculator and complaining that it can't write calculus equations on a black board

Re: Pope Francis has died

#666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He riled many of his flock and hierarchy when he said that "even atheists can be redeemed". It's quite a bit above our pay grade to proclaim categorically who supposedly cannot be redeemed; it verges on blasphemy. Cf. Job. 38: 1. Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said: 2 “Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge? 3 "Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall a…

> It's quite a bit above our pay grade to proclaim categorically who supposedly cannot be redeemed; it verges on blasphemy. And the idea that atheists can be saved isn't novel in Catholic teaching – it is implicit in the Holy Office's 1949 condemnation of Feeneyism, [0] in which it declared that a person who doesn't believe in Catholicism due to "invincible ignorance" can be saved by an "implicit desire" for God. Alt…

> ... who doesn't believe in God in their head [..] but nonetheless believes in God in their heart ...

I'm racking my brain right now dissecting what that even means. Believing there is no one but wishing it wasn't so?

Re: Pope Francis has died

#667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With no opinion one way or another on the pope.. In the modern world this is a weird criteria to judge people on. I assume like every modern politician, he doesn't write his own speeches. A quite google search seems to confirm it https://cruxnow.com/church/2015/02/does-the-pope-write-his-o...

Who cares? He said it. The words are his responsibility. If his speech had advocated for grinding orphans into a nutritious paste, we wouldn’t be defending him on the basis that he didn’t write those words. He chose to read them and give them his official backing.

This is a perfect example of a motte and bailey. The "motte" is that people should be judged badly for parroting horrible ideas they heard (which makes sense) and the "bailey" is that people should be praised just for parroting nice things they heard (which doesn't make sense).

Re: Pope Francis has died

#668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sincerely hope that at some point we can develop artificial wombs and use them to render this whole debate moot. Instead of abortion we can take the fetus out, put it into an artificial womb then let it be raised as an orphan or whatever. It should make both sides happy, IF they are both being honest about their motives.

[flagged]

> There is no “both sides” here

If there's ever a disagreement or debate about anything, then there are literally always two sides.

You might disagree that the thing that the other side is prioritizing is as important (e.g. the lives of fetuses vs. the right to bodily autonomy for women), or that the thing the other side believes is even right (e.g. people who believe in racial hierarchies and other literally racist ideologies), but that doesn't detract from the fact that two sides do, in reality, exist.

In my experience, it's way more effective determining the thing that the other side cares about, then finding common ground if that's something that you also care about -- from there, it's a lot easier to make the case that while both priorities are good, your priorities might be more justifiable.

Shutting down the other side by saying their viewpoint is invalid has been productive for me literally zero times in my life.

(On the topic, this was a thing that Pope Francis was exceptionally good at: he actually listened to the concerns of people and spoke with them where they were at, even those who he vehemently disagreed with).

Re: Pope Francis has died

#669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's quite a bit above our pay grade to proclaim categorically who supposedly cannot be redeemed; it verges on blasphemy. And the idea that atheists can be saved isn't novel in Catholic teaching – it is implicit in the Holy Office's 1949 condemnation of Feeneyism, [0] in which it declared that a person who doesn't believe in Catholicism due to "invincible ignorance" can be saved by an "implicit desire" for God. Alt…

> ... who doesn't believe in God in their head [..] but nonetheless believes in God in their heart ... I'm racking my brain right now dissecting what that even means. Believing there is no one but wishing it wasn't so?

In Catholic theology, God is believed to be Goodness itself – in a sense, identical to Plato's Form of the Good (but going far beyond Plato's idea at the same time).

Hence, anyone who loves Good loves God... so a person who truly loves Good, but who due to some intellectual obstacle, isn't able to call that Good "God" – from a Catholic viewpoint, it can be said that they love God without knowing that it is God whom they love – and by that love they can be saved

Re: Pope Francis has died

#670
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed; and when the Second Vatican Council decided Mass should be said in the vernacular, the obligation of the Church was to follow. Instead, the conservatives of the church ('conservative' here means those that emphasize adhering to tradition and are adverse to change) created a rift by eschewing this change and even heightening the importance of the Latin Mass, creating the impression that a mass spoken in the lo…

The issue ive heard with non-Latin mass is that it has lessened the feeling of global community among Catholics as they now do not all speak the same language (Latin).

Anecdatum, but I still feel like part of a community when I go to Mass in a language I'm not familiar with, because its rhythm and flow are the same more or less everywhere.

Disclaimer: I'm definitely not old enough to predate vatican 2, so I'm not from a time when Latin Mass was widespread.

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