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Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

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Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#661

Post by Apocryphon »

motorest wrote: post #659
re-thc wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is closer to traditional craftsmanship and the progression of apprentice-journeyman-master than the “every hacker for themselves”. Let's fix the real problem then? Why can't tech be like this?

> Let's fix the real problem then? Why can't tech be like this? Why should it? What problems would they solve? Are you so afraid of competing with those who might not get a certiciation?

Well, it'd be nice if they reintroduced proper training of new tech workers, rather than outsourcing it to universities ("not supposed to be trade schools") or relying on internships/co-ops which these days are often nearly as competitive to be hired for as actual jobs. Formalized apprenticeships could help with that, as well as impart a proper culture of craftsmanship.

And as far as certs go, just having a simple one for algorithms/data structures can seriously fix the issue of having to go through the Leetcode gauntlet at every single place one interviews at. A certificate for that class of questions would go a long way towards smoothing the existing interview process. DRY, anyone?

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#662

Post by gregncheese »

dakiol wrote: post #241
gregncheese wrote: post #229

I am in the process of recruiting a software engineer. You're on spot when saying "ask about human experience". To add to your experience, I became increasingly suspicious of the "perfect fit" resumes. it's insane how so many people just put the right keywords. I think it might work to pass in larger companies where HR use automated systems to triage applicants.

If your resume is not a perfect fit, you don’t get an interview. So either it’s a almost perfect fit or no chance to get the job. What’s wrong about that?

I don't conduct interviews in that manner. It is more important for me to know that I can trust your words and that you are aware of your limits, so you can learn any missing skills on the job.

For example, if you have 3 years of working experience and claim, "I know Docker, Kubernetes, AWS, GCP, Azure, Python, React, PostgreSQL, MySQL, and networking extensively," in 99% of cases, I can no longer trust anything you say.

As for the 1% hidden gem I might miss out on, I likely won't have the budget for them anyway.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#663

Post by motorest »

wqaatwt wrote: post #621
rafaelmn wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what is one to do Find roles where your skills match the required skills ?

And what happens when another candidate has the same skills and a bunch of other skills on top of those? Well maybe they don’t.. but of if they manage to take your interview spot it hardly matters.

> And what happens when another candidate has the same skills and a bunch of other skills on top of those?

Perhaps the first step anyone should take is to arrive at the realization that the point of a hiring process from the perspective of a hiring manager is not to find the absolute best candidate. The goal is to pick anyone, anyone at all, from a pool of acceptable candidates. If they are able to get through the door and not shit the bed, they are a superb hire.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#664

Post by motorest »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #600
rafaelmn wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think happens when you lie through the interview ? I recently had this in my team - we were hiring fast and hired someone we shouldn't have - fired after two weeks. So your best case is receiving 6 weeks income after getting lucky and scamming someone through an interview ?

I dunno, I managed to get stellar reviews form my boss and colleagues after getting the job. Maybe not everyone is incompetent. Maybe some people who are good at doing one thing, are also gonna be good at doing other things, but HR and recruiters are terrible at screening for adaptability and transferable skills, or they are just risk adverse and play it safe for an easy pay cheque, so you end up missing out on jobs…

You touched on an important topic: if a candidate has potential but HR has no way to tell if that candidate is any good, should they hire him?

How can they tell apart a candidate with potential but an abismal CV from a candidate who is utterly incompetent and a bonafide scrub?

The problem is that this is not a HR problem. This is a you problem. Why are you failing to stand out and prove your value?

The problem with HR is not buzzwords. Their problem is that they need to justify their choices with objectively verifiable data. What are you giving them that allows them to say you are a safer hire than any other candidate around you? You are not giving them anything to work with. They can take a gamble on you, but they can also take a gamble on anyone else walking through their door. If they are going to take a gamble, wouldn't they bet on someone who on paper leads to better odds? What are you giving them to work with?

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#666

Post by colonial »

gregncheese wrote: post #229

I am in the process of recruiting a software engineer. You're on spot when saying "ask about human experience". To add to your experience, I became increasingly suspicious of the "perfect fit" resumes. it's insane how so many people just put the right keywords. I think it might work to pass in larger companies where HR use automated systems to triage applicants.

> I think it might work to pass in larger companies where HR use automated systems to triage applicants.

I don't know if this is true per se, but many job seekers in online forums seem to believe it is. Typically, keyword stuffing is thought to placate some nebulous "AI system."

Whether such systems actually exist is unclear to me.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#667

Post by wyclif »

sarlalian wrote: post #592
hansvm wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, that still works? I first heard about that a decade ago.

You can occasionally prompt the AI resume review systems using the white text as well.

Really depressing to think about, as one who has never tried to game the system.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#668

Post by wyclif »

SR2Z wrote: post #653
jajko wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, that's just rather bland justification of cheating. Not sure how US corporations work, but in Europe any big company would flag you internally so you won't be able to work there for a decade, and the mark still remains in their hiring system afterwards. Just a stupid thing to do, as lying always is. This are not school exams, company wants to hire the best candidate. If all fail then best failing is still the b…

Even reneging on an offer in the US gets you blacklisted for like 5 years max. It's not personal, it's just business.

What do you mean by "reneging on an offer"? Do you mean simply turning down an offer? How is that a blacklistable offence?

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#669

Post by amrocha »

Kirby64 wrote: post #652
amrocha wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do see how discriminatory your statement is right? Replace “wearing a suit” with literally anything else unrelated to programming skills. Wearing a dress. Having a particular speech pattern. Being old. As soon as you start judging people for anything other than their performance you fucked up. People’s personality comes through in the interview process. By the end of an hour working with someone you should have a…

No, I don't. Like I said at the end: > I’m not advocating for it being an absolute state, but you certainly have to give some consideration to the fact that dressing up far more than is needed implies you don’t culturally understand. It’s as simple as that. I'm not saying you immediately throw a candidate out for wearing a suit. It's entirely possible I'm wrong and my mind can be changed by their performance, but it…

[flagged]

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#670

Post by tomhow »

amrocha wrote: post #669
Kirby64 wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't. Like I said at the end: > I’m not advocating for it being an absolute state, but you certainly have to give some consideration to the fact that dressing up far more than is needed implies you don’t culturally understand. It’s as simple as that. I'm not saying you immediately throw a candidate out for wearing a suit. It's entirely possible I'm wrong and my mind can be changed by their performance, but it…

[flagged]

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