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How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

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Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#661

Post by DangitBobby »

kopirgan wrote: post #429
Boltgolt wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increadible that "but what about her emails" is still the only defense for sending military secrets over a non secure line to a journalist

That was, as I mentioned a mistake not intentional. If anything was intentional it was the so called journalist giving it publicity instead of doing his duty as a citizen to report it, delete it. Doing anything else is in my books treason. As a company employee that's what you're supposed to do if copied wrongly on an email. In fact that's the usual disclaimer that appears in many email footers.

The journalist who reported it committed treason. Wow, congratulations on having the most unhinged take I've ever seen on this site, well done.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#662

Post by PieTime »

tetromino_ wrote: post #366
sapphicsnail wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have yet to see a free speech absolutist express concern about the government and media suppressing Gaza protestors or LGBTQ books being banned or anything else that affects the left. Doesn't seem very principled to me.

> I have yet to see a free speech absolutist express concern ... Hi there. You are seeing one right now. Well, seeing the words of one. I am a free speech absolutist. What this administration is doing is abominable. I have always seen anti-Israeli campus posters as idiots, but Trump's crackdown on them is, imho, unconstitutional and immoral.

You’re free to support apartheid but I’ve never found slandering your opposition particularly useful. I don’t support any forms of violence, and framing is very important because it leads to peace activists being conflated with war mongering. Israel fascism is at the very heart of why free speech is being banned.

https://youtu.be/9Z1NyTdhZ-U?si=9S4rOI-fQY0Yr0XD

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#663

Post by DangitBobby »

kopirgan wrote: post #492
Aurornis wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your best argument is that journalists should look the other way when serious problems land in their lap? > As a company employee that's what you're supposed to do if copied wrongly on an email. In fact that's the usual disclaimer that appears in many email footers. This analogy would make sense if the messages went to an employee of the federal government, but they didn’t. It’s mind-bending that someone could be so…

Journalist has all rights to write about it and perhaps mention enough to prove he's not without proof but not reveal as much as he did. That's reckless. Repeat - revealing sensitive info even if you come across by accident or someone's mistake is a crime. Esp national ones not just corporate secrets.

What information did they reveal that was sensitive? The strikes had already taken place and so nothing they shared had any strategic value after the fact, other than to confirm the validity. To be clear it is utterly fucking insane (borderline "Russian bot" talking point) that you are entertaining this line of reasoning and I feel dirty for even engaging you.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#664

Post by raxxorraxor »

twright wrote: post #122

This is a really good compilation that should make any "free-speech absolutist" reconsider their support for the current administration. In my understanding, the commonplace interpretation of the first amendment is largely due to a series of landmark cases through the early to mid-20th century. A lot of expansions were provided to the amendment that have been taken for granted since then and we are now going to see c…

The problem isn't that the current US administration is seen as a good protector of freedom of speech. It is that its opposition dropped the ball on it so massively.

With support of the now decried platforms, the slogan "there is no freedom of speech without consequences" comes to mind. Helping corporations "clean house" against all the undesirables, people that "hate".

This again points at the Trump administration and how bad it would be. That isn't really a convincing message, it is that it opposition needs to rethink some arguments of the past.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#665

Post by FilosofumRex »

amitport wrote: post #627
FilosofumRex wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[dead]

I sense a lot Jewsphobia from you. Miriam Adelson is an American who happen to be Jewish, and has many many disagreements with the state of Israel. Are you going to classify everyone who does not seek the destruction of Israel as the pro-Israel Zionist lobby?. A bit Freudian of you to associate some Jewish woman some shadow Kabal. Jewish being targeted is like canary in a mine, never ends well.

There is a whole book written on the corrosive nature of the Israeli lobby on US foreign policy by Stephen Walt and John J. Mearsheimer. A shorter working paper version of it is . "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy." KSG Faculty Research Working Paper Series RWP06-011, March 2006.

As for Adelson, just look up her Wikipedia... she owns Israel Hayom, Israel's largest newspaper, and is a major supporter of current Israeli government and has advocated for explosion of Palestinians from Gaza, annexation of WestBank and paid for expansion of illegal Settlements. She conditioned her financial support of Trump on moving US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

Covering up for war crimes and war criminals never ends well, either.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#666

Post by DangitBobby »

SoyAnto wrote: post #129
ralusek wrote: post #114

Are Democrats constantly in violation of the constitution, and openly hostile to the first amendment? Yes. Does that make any of this acceptable? No. And a good deal of this is even more concerning.

What are these violations of the constitution committed by democrats you speak of?

Probably 2nd Amendment. Democrats do push a pretty tortured interpretation of 2A, it's true.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#667

Post by raxxorraxor »

p1necone wrote: post #174
twright wrote: post #122

This is a really good compilation that should make any "free-speech absolutist" reconsider their support for the current administration. In my understanding, the commonplace interpretation of the first amendment is largely due to a series of landmark cases through the early to mid-20th century. A lot of expansions were provided to the amendment that have been taken for granted since then and we are now going to see c…

I'm not really convinced more than a vanishingly small percentage of people who self identify as "free speech absolutists" are using that term in good faith. Freedom of speech is just the easiest way to have plausible deniability when directly or indirectly defending otherwise indefensible positions. Anecdotally I've noticed these sorts of people much less often, at least on here as of late. Methinks their deniabilit…

I don't think it fits completely, but for the sake of it, I am a free speech absolutist. I live in Europe for context.

Your insinuations isn't really a good faith argument either but I gladly join that group of "these sorts of people" because they are obviously more sensible than the others.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#669

Post by alsaaro »

seek wrote: post #530

> In a $10 billion lawsuit against 60 Minutes and its parent Paramount, Trump claims they selectively edited an interview with former Vice President Kamala Harris prior to the 2024 election. The TV news show last month published transcripts of the interview at the heart of the dispute, but Paramount is reportedly considering a settlement to avoid potentially damaging its chances of winning the administration’s approv…

Even if true this is irrelevant, the first amendment is agnostic to truth or good propriety.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#670

Post by DangitBobby »

chriscrisby wrote: post #400

This is partisan garbage, I’ve been in infosec circles long enough to see democrats always get a pass for doing the same thing republicans do. Selective outrage is fake outrage.

It's amazing, as a kid I always wondered how fascism could take hold in a country, in history books they seemed to lay out the steps so clearly it should be easy to see and coming and stop it. Now that it's happening here, I now wonder how countries ever managed to keep fascism at bay. All it really takes is an unscrupulous public in love with its own opinions, and someone with a big voice who will tell them comforting fictions.
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