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TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

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Re: TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

#661

Post by itishappy »

skyyler wrote: post #640
smaug7 wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This to me is the correct answer. A lot of times in war it's not about logic or reason, it's about emotion and feeling. Throughout Chinese history, a leader is only "legitimate" or dare I say, have the Mandate from Heaven, when they have unified the country under one banner. It is a stain on their authority that there is "rouge" state outside the CCP's control. They will do anything to unify their country for nationa…

"rouge" means red "rogue" means rascal

In context, both kinda work.

Re: TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

#662

Post by knowitnone »

legitster wrote: post #643
thereddaikon wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China doesn't want Taiwan for TSMC. They want Taiwan because they see them as a rebellious province. In their mind, the Chinese civil war never ended and that island is the last bastion of the Kuomintang. One way I've heard it described in a way that is easier for Americans to understand is; Imagine at the end of the American Civil War, a confederate army retreated to an island like Cuba or Hawaii, they took it over…

It's worse than a rebellious province. It's a more successful rebellious province. For China, they hold up all of these technical accomplishments and quality of life improvements they have made under their one party system. But now over here is Taiwan that never bought in and is doing even better! It undercuts all of their messaging. If the communist party could wave a magic wand, they would take Taiwan and not just…

the US made China it's manufacturing arm and now the US wants to take that back? Kind of late. If China invades Taiwan, the US is to blame. Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.

Re: TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

#663

Post by LPisGood »

arandomusername wrote: post #627
LPisGood wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wanting to end a war that's been at a stalemate for 3 years doesn't mean sympathy or treason I find it so hard to take this point seriously. Without security guarantees, you are asking Ukraine to “end the war” and give up massive territory and give Russia plenty of time to re-arm. They have broken treaties before. Even still, why should the US care if Ukraine wants to keep defending itself from Russian aggression?…

> Without security guarantees, you are asking Ukraine to “end the war” and give up massive territory and give Russia plenty of time to re-arm Plenty of time for Ukraine to re-arm as well. Ukraine is the one kidnapping men on the streets to send to the front line. > ROI of sending Ukraine our old equipment But that's not the only thing getting sent. > we would be abandoning an ally What alliance did US and Ukraine hav…

> Ukraine is the one kidnapping men on the streets to send to the front line

Conscription as an enemy army marches through your borders is neither uncommon nor concerning.

> But that's not the only thing getting sent.

This line is essentially devoid of meaning without naming anything specific. The point is that what USA is sending is tremendous ROI in terms of damage to its enemies.

Are you familiar with Budapest Memorandum? Even if not official allies with a mutual defense pact, United States had commitments and more importantly the following dual interests that support aiding Ukraine:

1.) Weakening Russia 2.) Global stabilization / aggression deterrence

Re: TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

#664

Post by EB-Barrington »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #365
cheema33 wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Current administration is fast tracking nuclear prolifiacian. This is correct. Gone are the days when countries could count on the US to provide some protection against illegal invasions. All nations without nukes have to be considering them seriously now. Sure, they signed the NPT. But agreements no longer mean what they used to. Russia violates most of the agreements it signs. US already trashed the Budapest memo…

>US already trashed the Budapest memorandum that it signed in 1996. We were supposed to provide security to Ukraine in exchange for them giving up nukes. This is a common misconception. If you read the memorandum (it's rather short) you'll see it isn't true. We only promised to seek UN Security Council action. We went far beyond that. https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/P...

[dead]

Re: TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

#665

Post by gizmo »

ozmodiar wrote: post #610
gizmo wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is basically the George Bush argument "they hate us because of our freedom". Totally absurd.

They don't hate them, but it is an emberassment that a group from the same culture is so successful under a different political system that allows for more freedom. That combined with cultural revanchism about not breaking up the country (and having spent a lot of time there I can tell you it is strong) makes the existence of Taiwan as an independent nation a real sore point.

I don't think the CCP views Taiwan as more successful than mainland China. The CCP position is that Taiwan is already part of China and by that logic Taiwanese success is automatically Chinese success. I agree that cultural revanchism plays a major role.

Re: TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

#666

Post by bitmasher9 »

glenneroo wrote: post #652
thereddaikon wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insider knowledge? Not really, unless you count asking actual chinese and taiwanese nationals what they think about it instead of assuming their world view is the same as my own.

Thanks for clarification. Do you believe nationals of these countries (or any country in the world) know what the CCP actually wants i.e. its true goals?

I think their true goals are pretty transparent, but the specifics of how they plan to achieve them are more secretive.

The CCP primarily wants to gain power. Political, economic, and social. The levels of ambition probably vary by individuals inside the party, but generally involves a uniform level of control across all regions of China (including Taiwan from their point of view), and enough global power to give them a free hand in East Asia.

Chinese nationals may put more emphasis on increasing prosperity. Taiwan nationals may put more emphasis on strict control and global power. Individual reactions largely vary. Out of both groups, limitations on personal liberties cause the harshest criticism of CCP, with the one child policy almost universally seen unfavorably.

Re: TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

#667

Post by etiam »

CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #632
ekianjo wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> world because China wants to invade them and they wanted to give the US a reason to defend them and China a reason not to Reverse logic much? If wanting the best electronics know how was just enough to get it, every country would have a TSMC like by now

It's the reason why they did it, not the reason why they succeeded.

It's also not entirely irrelevant for why they succeeded.

Existential threat arguably is a much better motivator for making the sacrifices necessary than "wanting".

Re: TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

#668

Post by chrisjc »

tnt128 wrote: post #314

The idea that the US protects Taiwan from a possible Chinese invasion over chips is one of those things that sounds believable but really isn't going to happen. From China’s perspective, the cost of war is much higher than the cost of developing these chips themselves. In the worst-case scenario, they would be 2-3 years behind the cutting edge, which is not mission-critical. Most electronics (civilian or military) do…

> In the worst-case scenario, they would be 2-3 years behind the cutting edge, which is not mission-critical.

It's also worth considering how such an event might affect the US and allies. Would it slowdown, perhaps even halt certain operations/efforts for the US. For instance, all those chips the US needs to build supercomputers for "weather research". ;)

Re: TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

#669

Post by luthus001 »

jopsen wrote: post #246
raincole wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we give them the doubt of benefit: TSMC is just appeasing Trump and will delay the actual investment as much as possible. If we face the reality: Taiwan is a vassal state. The decision makers are simply owned by the US.

> If we face the reality: Taiwan is a vassal state. The decision makers are simply owned by the US. The thing about US "vassel" states is they don't have to do what the US says. And sometimes won't! It's a classic Russian talking point that Ukraine has no agency. You're making the same argument for Taiwan. Taiwan doesn't have to accept a US deal they don't like. They could build nukes. They could opt to do nothing an…

A democracy yes but what percentage of Taiwanese media are in the pockets of NED and USAID? That, and the fact "feel good" narratives of idealism sell better than the cold hard reality of power struggles, dominance, control, and backroom dealings. Taiwanese polities suffer from some of the same issues US voters are familiar with - a choice of lesser evil from bad candidates, unaccountability of politicians once elected, polarized media and electorate, etc etc. All great features not bugs from the standpoint of someone (a lot of someones, both Chinese and US interests) seeking to divide and conquer from the outside

Re: TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

#670

Post by bitsage »

dageshi wrote: post #9
croes wrote: post #5

I would be cautious. With a top notch chip factory there is no need to defend Taiwan against China.

Does anyone think the US would defend Taiwan at this point? I think that ship has sailed under the current administration.

The US is pivoting from Europe to the Pacific precisely to better protect the likes of Taiwan. The Trump admin is filled with China hawks. Taiwan doesn’t have trillions of dollars and hundreds of millions of people to fund its own defense, Europe does.
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