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"Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

whitehouse.gov

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Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#661

Post by dwaltrip »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #655
timoth3y wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with a highly sympathetic Supreme Court it is hard to imagine this EO standing. It goes against the foundation of not only US law, but couple of hundred years of international democratic tradition in which allegiance is not to a person, but to the nation itself. US civil servants and military alike swear an oath to support and defend the Constitution not the president or their commander. Illegal orders are not o…

If the Supreme Court and Congress has no enforcement power, though, what recourse is there?

Protest and revolt. Government for the people and by the people

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#662

Post by imgabe »

arunabha wrote: post #503

In general, people are going to interpret this EO with their own lens. Unsurprisingly, reasonable people may disagree on the merits of the EO as a whole. However this part of the EO is pretty concerning > 'The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President’s supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch' and later > 'No employee of the executive bra…

Before this EO, what happened if a lower level official in the executive branch had an interpretation of the law that was different from the President and Attorney General?

Was junior staff attorney in the Tulsa field office previously able to override the President?

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#663

Post by sejje »

timoth3y wrote: post #651
arunabha wrote: post #503

In general, people are going to interpret this EO with their own lens. Unsurprisingly, reasonable people may disagree on the merits of the EO as a whole. However this part of the EO is pretty concerning > 'The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President’s supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch' and later > 'No employee of the executive bra…

Even with a highly sympathetic Supreme Court it is hard to imagine this EO standing. It goes against the foundation of not only US law, but couple of hundred years of international democratic tradition in which allegiance is not to a person, but to the nation itself. US civil servants and military alike swear an oath to support and defend the Constitution not the president or their commander. Illegal orders are not o…

> This EO eliminates the concept of an illegal order since the law would be whatever the executive interprets it to be.

Isn't this exactly how it works? They interpret it and that stands unless challenged in court.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#664

Post by dwaltrip »

timoth3y wrote: post #651
arunabha wrote: post #503

In general, people are going to interpret this EO with their own lens. Unsurprisingly, reasonable people may disagree on the merits of the EO as a whole. However this part of the EO is pretty concerning > 'The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President’s supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch' and later > 'No employee of the executive bra…

Even with a highly sympathetic Supreme Court it is hard to imagine this EO standing. It goes against the foundation of not only US law, but couple of hundred years of international democratic tradition in which allegiance is not to a person, but to the nation itself. US civil servants and military alike swear an oath to support and defend the Constitution not the president or their commander. Illegal orders are not o…

One can hope…

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#665

Post by dclowd9901 »

steveBK123 wrote: post #162
dkobia wrote: post #128

This new administration lays bare what we've known all along - the legislative gridlock and dysfunction in the house of representatives and senate has made them completely incapable of governing -- the least productive in a generation. This is opened up an opportunity for a well funded strongman, and the checks and balances that were intended to protect our democracy are now mere suggestions.

This is the problem with people being OK with executive overreach when "their team" is in power. Eventually, and in fact about 50% of the time - the OTHER team is in power.. and may just push the overreach further. We should desire that the legislative side actually legislates and each branch of the government holds the other two in check, regardless of partisan control. Further having our judicial branch become open…

While I agree with the essential point you're making, it's pretty clear this overreach was always part of this administration's game plan. At least until Pence delayed it through validating the 2020 elections.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#666

Post by pessimizer »

timoth3y wrote: post #651
arunabha wrote: post #503

In general, people are going to interpret this EO with their own lens. Unsurprisingly, reasonable people may disagree on the merits of the EO as a whole. However this part of the EO is pretty concerning > 'The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President’s supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch' and later > 'No employee of the executive bra…

Even with a highly sympathetic Supreme Court it is hard to imagine this EO standing. It goes against the foundation of not only US law, but couple of hundred years of international democratic tradition in which allegiance is not to a person, but to the nation itself. US civil servants and military alike swear an oath to support and defend the Constitution not the president or their commander. Illegal orders are not o…

[flagged]

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#667

Post by frugalmail »

SantalBlush wrote: post #445
cyberax wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bureaucracy is what happens with _any_ large system. It's unavoidable, and the best you can do is to build institutions that know how to manage it.

And bureaucracy isn't always bad. State and federal bureaucracies are probably largely responsible for protecting the 2020 US election from fraud and interference.

[flagged]

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#668

Post by nowandlater »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #655
timoth3y wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with a highly sympathetic Supreme Court it is hard to imagine this EO standing. It goes against the foundation of not only US law, but couple of hundred years of international democratic tradition in which allegiance is not to a person, but to the nation itself. US civil servants and military alike swear an oath to support and defend the Constitution not the president or their commander. Illegal orders are not o…

If the Supreme Court and Congress has no enforcement power, though, what recourse is there?

sic semper tyrannis

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#669

Post by _DeadFred_ »

pessimizer wrote: post #666
timoth3y wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with a highly sympathetic Supreme Court it is hard to imagine this EO standing. It goes against the foundation of not only US law, but couple of hundred years of international democratic tradition in which allegiance is not to a person, but to the nation itself. US civil servants and military alike swear an oath to support and defend the Constitution not the president or their commander. Illegal orders are not o…

[flagged]

We should not have have top down dictates on what cases get prosecuted, that is insane. The President can give areas of focus, but average government employees are not military personnel, they should not be given 'marching orders'. Special envoys, etc, sure, but telling individual prosecutors 'drop charges against XYZ' isn't how our system should work. 'I would appreciate it if...' yes, but not 'Bob's our guy, drop the charges against him'.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#670

Post by pessimizer »

arunabha wrote: post #503

In general, people are going to interpret this EO with their own lens. Unsurprisingly, reasonable people may disagree on the merits of the EO as a whole. However this part of the EO is pretty concerning > 'The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President’s supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch' and later > 'No employee of the executive bra…

> Given that the executive branch implements the law, this would imply that the president's interpretation is all that matters. The other two branches have no real role left to play.

What role did the other two branches of government ever have in the executive branch? You're describing the normal state of affairs as if it were a shocking escalation. Actually, it's any deviation from this that is a constitutional problem. The elected president is the head of the executive branch. If he is not the head, then the executive branch has no connection to any democratic process at all. Who is a bureaucrat serving if not the president? An inner sense of fairness or fashion?

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