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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#661

Post by xp84 »

Lio wrote: post #273

I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so. The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just…

Yes, encryption is one of the most “cat’s out of the bag” situations - even assuming every company worldwide is cowed into submission by governments to add back doors, all they’re going to be catching is the dumb and unsophisticated criminals and even that will diminish as even the dummies realize every text and call is wiretapped once people start seeing their private communiques come out in court.

I suppose there are people in the camp advocating for back doors who still think it’s worth the tremendous downsides to be able to catch that group of criminals (there are certainly plenty of idiot criminals), but anybody can just use plain GPG emails for free, or deploy some open source encrypted chat server on a $20 a month cloud instance… and I assume operators in places like Russia or China won’t mind hosting easy services for less nerdy criminals willing to pay in crypto.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#662

Post by sneak »

traceroute66 wrote: post #494
sneak wrote: post #364

There is already a global iCloud encryption backdoor. iCloud Backup is not end to end encrypted. iCloud Photos is not end to end encrypted. Apple can read all of your iMessages and see all of your photos. The governments where they operate can compel them to turn over this data. They can and do. Often. Operationally this doesn’t really change much.

> iCloud Backup is not end to end encrypted. iCloud Photos is not end to end encrypted. DO NOT SPREAD FUD. If you could be bothered to spend two microseconds on a search engine, you would find this[1] which states IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH : For users who turn on Advanced Data Protection, the total number of data categories protected using end-to-end encryption rises from 14 to 23 and includes iCloud Backup, Photos, Not…

Approximately nobody has turned on advanced data protection.

When you go to an Apple store and buy and use an iPhone, as millions do, you are prompted to create an Apple Account and log in. iCloud and iCloud Backup are automatically and silently enabled. The device automatically runs non-e2ee backups nightly.

This is how almost every iPhone on Earth runs. Most people don’t even know the feature exists. Even amongst techies that know about it, almost nobody has it enabled.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#663

Post by mark_l_watson »

Lio wrote: post #273

I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so. The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just…

What is up with the UK? I have always loved my British friends and appreciated England’s history (setting aside their brutality during the British Empire). I just don’t understand where they went wrong on curtailing free speech rights of their citizens, privacy rights, etc. I just hope we in the USA don’t follow their lead.

Democracies without free speech and privacy are not really democracies.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#664

Post by gavin_gee »

With the increased caliber of software folks in Trumps orbit, my sense is we will have a much more informed decision from the Whitehouse on this topic and whether the US should weigh into the fray with the UK.

as a side note, its really baffling what this capability would actually provide for? Any serious criminal isn't using icloud backup or even an iPhone in the first place. So this is just a shit outcome for the general population.

If this goes through, I look forward to the news of the world expose on some cabinet members personal details

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#665

Post by kridsdale1 »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #663
Lio wrote: post #273

I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so. The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just…

What is up with the UK? I have always loved my British friends and appreciated England’s history (setting aside their brutality during the British Empire). I just don’t understand where they went wrong on curtailing free speech rights of their citizens, privacy rights, etc. I just hope we in the USA don’t follow their lead. Democracies without free speech and privacy are not really democracies.

> I just don’t understand where they went wrong on curtailing free speech rights of their citizens, privacy rights, etc.

Isn’t this precisely the set of causes that precipitated The Declaration of Independence?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#666

Post by 369548684892826 »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #429
bilekas wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By banning Apple from doing business in the UK. As someone else here said, Apple would 100% call this bluff. And you can be certain the UK won't have the US to put pressure on Apple for them. All the would happen is the UK Apple users would be with an expensive paperweight.

UK can just start fining apple billions of dollars if they dont want to fully kick them out of the country.

Actually, maybe this is what the government's end goal is. Free money!

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#667

Post by xp84 »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #632
TechnicalVault wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It creates a nasty precedent doesn't it? If Apple can provide the UK government with foreign data, what's to stop Russia or China making them provide data on UK minister's phones, or more likely dissidents in exile? I can't see on what basis the government thinks they're going to get to be exceptional here?

What if Apple just stops operating in the UK? They could start selling "English language" iPhones in France, let people go on a day trip if they wanted to buy them. There are ways of sidestepping this bullshit if you're an international company. Supposing they have any integrity, I mean. How far will the UK double down?

I still don’t think the UK is a big enough market for Apple to be that worried about the following, but if the government and Apple escalate to the point of Apple pulling out of the UK, it would be pretty easy for the government to force all of its telecoms to ban any new iPhones from their mobile networks. So the citizens will probably not get to simply walk right around the restrictions that way, assuming the government is serious about this.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#669

Post by ksec »

reaperducer wrote: post #460
ksec wrote: post #134

Just make TimeCapsule for iOS and iPadOS. With option to store it fully encrypted in AWS cold storage as Apple subscription.

Any time someone on HN starts a reply with "Just..." you know they didn't think it through.

Care to explain yourself?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#670

Post by sitkack »

cpymchn wrote: post #77

What's new here? As mentioned in the article, Salt Typhoon and the recency of this request by the UK. At this point they should know better. My pet theory is anytime the US wants to do something illegal under US law, they simply ask the UK to do it and vice versa. That's why Salt Typhoon isn't and never will be a lesson learned.

That is exactly what this is.
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