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String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

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Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#661

Post by esperent »

taurath wrote: post #615
esperent wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s hard to find a not traumatized autistic person for example. This is an extraordinary claim and needs evidence. Do you have a source for this?

Here’s one - 90% of autistic teens w mood problems reported at least one trauma. 4x likelihood of having PTSD. Perhaps I exaggerated the totality but I do think the science is in on whether autistic people are more traumatized. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK573608/

Thanks for sharing. That's an well written study and highlights a side of autism I didn't know about.

However, throughout the study they are very careful to point out both sides of the arrow of causality.

Direction one, autism causes trauma: autistic children and adults are more likely to experience traumatic events because of being autistic. This seems relatively well known known and, sadly, understandable.

Direction two, early childhood trauma causes autism: the study says that while there is data showing a link, there's not enough for it to be clear. It definitely seems that far from all children who experience trauma will develop autism, and also that far from all autistic children got that way via trauma. Obviously this is a tricky area to get data on.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#662

Post by Muromec »

esperent wrote: post #603
llm_trw wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countries like Hungary. Not a place I think anyone should try and emulate.

This is what arguing in bad faith looks like. The list of European countries that ban Nazi symbols includes Austria, the Czech Republic, France, Germany, Hungary, Poland, Romania, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Slovakia, and Sweden. When people talk about EU countries banning of Nazi symbols, they are always referring primarily to Germany. It is the archetypical example of "countries that ban Nazi symbols". If…

The point was about banning both soviet and nazi symbols as equally evil

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#663

Post by Muromec »

olalonde wrote: post #461
wesapien wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After seeing this news, I recall watching a video by Julia Galef about "what is rationality". Would it be fair to say that in this situation, they lack epistemic rationality but are high in instrumental rationality?

If they had high instrumental rationality, they would be effective at achieving their goals. That doesn’t seem to be the case - by conventional standards, they would even be considered "losers": jobless, homeless, imprisoned, or on the run.

That depends on a goal. The goal of a martyr is not life.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#664

Post by IshKebab »

stuartjohnson12 wrote: post #654
IshKebab wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems a bit nonsense to me. > The mugger argues back that for any low but strictly greater than 0 probability of being able to pay back a large amount of money (or pure utility) there exists a finite amount that makes it rational to take the bet. This is a basic logic error. It ignores the very obvious fact that increasing the reward amount decreases the probability that it will be returned . E.g. if the probabili…

That's what the person responding to meant - attempts to make human systems "rational" often involves simplifying dependent probabilities and presenting them as independent. The rationalist community both frequently makes this reasoning error and is aware they frequently make this error, and coined this term to refer to the category of reasoning mistake.

> coined this term to refer to the category of reasoning mistake.

That's not at all what the Wikipedia article for it says. It presents it as an interesting paradox with several potential (and incorrect!) "remedies" rather than a category of basic logical errors.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#665

Post by bagels »

Every time I hear about anything related to Effective Altruism, it's because people who believe this stuff have done crimes sufficient to make it in to the news.

Are there other contexts they show up where they are not doing crimes, or really non-normative things?

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#666

Post by Muromec »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #581
Muromec wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Maybe I'm missing some context, but I'm under impression that nobody here (upthread from this comment) is advocating, representing or has anything to do whatsoever with murder cults. Discounting Christianity or US tax residency as a background levels of deathcultism of course.

There is however a living breathing person sharing their personal experiences, to which a polite response is not the one you see above (pushing their agenda, which contributes to those negative experiences).

I udnerstand that for the demographics represented here it's sometimes difficult to tell an abstract concept from a living person, thus the explicit call to have some fucking shame for a second.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#667

Post by skissane »

sunshowers wrote: post #656
skissane wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but there again you are conflating three separate questions: (1) Do we have choices? (2) Are our choices "free"? (3) Should we be held morally responsible for our choices? How we answer (1) and (2) doesn't necessarily determine how we answer (3). And if (3) is your real point, maybe you should focus on that, rather than confusing things by conflating it with (1) and (2).

I just don't think people being religious is different in kind from people being trans. (Degree, yes, but not kind.) I'm saying as an irreligious trans person who sees the wreckage that fundamentalist religion is causing on my community at the moment.

And if that’s your ultimate point, I’m not going to disagree with you.

But I still think several things you said on the way here were put in a rather imprecise and conflationary way.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#668

Post by Muromec »

adastra22 wrote: post #499
sterlind wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's been an exhausting couple of weeks for me, as a trans person. one executive order after another, explicitly attacking us. scrambling to update all my documents, navigating a Kafkaesque bureaucracy with constantly shifting rules. now this. there are like six Zizians. there are millions of trans people. I'm sure that many of the Zizians being trans says something about the Ziz cult, but Ziz doesn't say anything ab…

It’s not “like blood libel.” It is blood libel. It is literally the same thing.

Nobody is literally Hitler because the man is for sure dead. Also nobody is literally nazi, as the party was disbanded, so we are all here somewhere on the spectrum between being and not being Hitlers, nazis, fascists or what not, if nothing else, by the fact of being humans (or other sort of sentient next-token-predictors).

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#669

Post by tsimionescu »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #42
zozbot234 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A far more likely possibility is that their ideology is actually centered around "Sith who happen to originate from Vega (a.k.a. α Lyrae )", not "Sith who abstain from animal products". (A residual possibility is "Sith from Las Vegas, Nevada".)

I don't think so. The people specifically are vegan, and their leader believes that future AI overlords will punish people retroactively for their moral failings. This is reported in some of the other posts on this page. It's wild, but a view that is is fairly widely discussed in the rationality community, but only taken seriously by Fringe groups.[1] My question is what Sith meant to them https://en.m.wikipedia.org/…

Apparently, being a Sith meant to Ziz that you should do whatever is in your power and desire to do, without other constraints. If you're "fundamentally good" (a thing she believes in), then what you end up doing will be a kind of maximization of good.

Of course, this is trite pulp nonsense, high-school nerd level philosophy at best.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#670

Post by guerrilla »

lz400 wrote: post #550

Everytime lesswrong or rationalists or Yudkowski or any derivative show up here, I try to read some of the materials around and frankly, I don't understand most of it, it's all so self referential, full of impenetrable jargon and intentionally obtuse. It sounds mentally deranged and cultish. And it turns out that it can one-shot you into a death cult.

Me too, until now.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42904925

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