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South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

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Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#661
post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t the answer, then, to just give North Korea 10x as long as a “managed” colony before unification? --- Or, alternately, given that literally everything in NK would need to be rebuilt at some point... rather than "swallowing the elephant whole", they could take incremental bites: annex a few miles of North Korea into themselves; revitalize/gentrify that part; repeat. Slowly, over 50 years. (How? At the end of the…

I am unsure of the ethics of conquering a state that is in the state of North Korea and then forcing the people (who are brothers and sisters of the South) to continue to live like that for a generation while their conquerers live (relatively speaking) like kings across the road.

They wouldn't be "forced to continue living like that." They'd be free to seek opportunity anywhere in the world. (Unlike today, where North Koreans are literally the only people in the world who are not allowed to leave their country.)

Remember that much of the reason North Korea is the way it is currently, is due to active suppression of many types of economic activity that would otherwise be happening naturally. There's a lot of economic "potential energy" in NK waiting to be unleashed — e.g. many NK entrepreneurs currently doing grey-market activity while hiding from the regime, who'd love to become reputable businesses and market their services in the open; many NK workers who'd love to take jobs in the inevitable call centers SK would build there (NK would instantly become to SK as the Philippines is to the US — a country full of native speakers of your language, that you can put in front of phones); etc.

Also, probably one of the first things to happen, as soon as it was allowed to happen, would be that North Korean land-owners would sell their land to South Korean farming conglomerates (at ridiculously low prices); those farming conglomerates would then come in and apply modern agriculture practices, and be growing 100x more food within the year than the NK farmers were able to grow on the same land area.

Yes, by default those SK agro-businesses would be growing for export ("extraction economy"), because SK could pay far more than NK could for the produce. But the NK government could just tax that economic activity — it's not an SK business, after all, but an NK-incorporated subsidiary of an SK business, subject to NK laws. The NK government could then use the tax revenue to turn around and buy the food grown by those businesses, to distribute it in social welfare programs. (Or they could just levy taxes directly in the form of produce, ala historical agrarian-economy taxation systems.)

(Interestingly, there should also be at least some things you can grow cheaply in NK but not SK, due to the latitude difference. SK is parallel to Spain/Greece; while NK is parallel to France/Northern Italy. Agro-businesses love expanding into these alternative growing regions to expand their TAM.)

All these positive things would happen quickly and easily (i.e. within a 3-year period), just by converting North Korea into a capitalist-market-economy + social-welfare state and enabling free trade between NK and SK (and between NK and everywhere else, too.)

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#662

Transparent coup d'etat attempt rumored to happen for months. The only option when the mouse is cornered. Approval rating in the <10% range, Japan whispering in his ear and pulling the puppet strings, crazy selfish wife abusing state resources, it is almost comically predictable if not for how serious it is. North Korea is always the convenient excuse... only hope Westerners don't get fooled by the rhetoric. Guy digg…

>Japan whispering in his ear and pulling the puppet strings I'm curious if you have some sources for this? I'm not that familiar with SK politics and I'm obviously biased since almost all info about SK I either get from English/Japanese sources. Afaik he was pretty dovish towards Japan during his election, which goes against the decades long tradition of tit-for-tat during election between SK&Japan since "looking tou…

The conservatives tend to blame the liberals for being North Korean sympathizers. The liberals tend to blame the conservatives for being Japanese sellouts. They use these angles to inflame public opinion against the other party and distract from other issues.

I’d say anyone seriously thinking Japan has bought out the conservatives is just as foolish as someone that seriously thinks the liberals are North Korean spies.

That said, there is a contingent of South Koreans that genuinely consider Japan a mortal military threat just biding their time and waiting to attack Korea. And that North Korea is just a merely misguided misunderstood brother that is absolutely harmless despite their sabre rattling.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> One could argue that the invocation of the Emergencies Act in Canada (in response to protests against COVID safety measures) resembles martial law > I'd agree with this characterisation. I consider it an occupation of the capital. If re-establishing public order by forcing lawbreakers to leave is martial law, then so be it. It needed to happen. There have been successful long-running protests in Ottawa in the past…

> It needed to happen. This is independent of the claim that it didn't happen ("Zero countries in the West enacted anything resembling martial law"). We're just talking about whether martial law was imposed, not whether it was unjustified.

I was objecting to the characterization of the occupation of the capital city as being simply a 'protest'.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#664
post #431

Two informational live threads: https://bsky.app/profile/antonhur.com/post/3lcfxpcpmuc24 https://bsky.app/profile/sarahjeong.bsky.social/post/3lcfxvf... My understanding based on just finding out about this and skimming a bit: President declared martial law to distract from some embarrassing thing Military starts enforcing Assembly votes to outlaw martial law Military stands down

From that feed: > Democratic Party aides are shown spraying fire extinguishers at the infiltrating army to keep them back. I remember reading this type of minute by minute description of unfolding news on Twitter, back in the day. I'm reading it on BlueSky now. My, how times have changed. I can't find a similar thread on X. For me X's lead post on the subject is: > ELON MUSK HAS CHANGED THE LIKE BUTTON TO SUPPORT THE…

There were plenty of threads on X about everything, in Korean.

Plenty of Armchair experts on both platforms giving likely misconstrued information.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, you launch a half-assed coup d'etat, and the next thing you know you get arres-... er, re-elected legitimately.

Only in America.

We have the bigliest beer halls of all!

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP was responding to a hypothetical situation where the military does not care about the law and supports the president unconditionally. In this situation does the 2nd amendment make sense?

No, because by resisting at all you are already criminal, so why does it matter that you are legally allowed to own firearms when 2A supporters insist that banning firearms does not limit access to firearms? A tyrannical state will not care that you are "legally" allowed to own firearms, and rebels do not get rights. Also, I'll believe the claim that 2A is to prevent tyranny when I see it, because most of the time wh…

Consider the context into which the amendment was written; a very bloody war between Crown loyalists and separatists (all British subjects, mind you) had just been completed. The idea of a United States citizen was still a dream. That individuals owned and operated their own weapons was the sole reason the separatists won.

I'll point to a more recent example: the Los Angeles riots in 1992. Koreatown was protected by gun toting citizens, literally fending off the mob. (Whether we categorize the mobs as tyrannical is more pedantic than anything else, the men with weapons maintained their agency because of the threat of lethal force. Guns against a government yield the same end, maintaining agency when others may try to take it from you.)

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CNN is reporting that parliament has successfully overturned martial law National Assembly has voted to lift martial law. Yoon (and the army) would still have to recognise it.

Assume the coup fails. How does South Korea purge its military of coup participants without significantly reducing its readiness for conflict with a resurgent north Korea?

It's not clear anyone in the military participated beyond pretending to follow orders. Soldiers guarding the National Assembly seemed to do a terrible job securing the building and it may have been intentional. A reporter on the scene reported that soldiers were scared when an Assemblyman yelled at them.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it hilarious that people think the second amendment would matter much in a US civil war (or whatever internal conflict you want to imagine). If the US military is united behind one group then that's that. If the US military is divided, then god help us caught in the middle.

Yeah, a non-divided military + police usually means a very short and decisive civil war, in observable modern cases. The exceptions tend to involve a divided armed forces, or extensive foreign interference on behalf of the rebels (see: Syria). For some reason, folks like to cite US foreign intervention failures as proof motivated locals with rifles can beat the US military, but that's not really the right thing to lo…

Consider insurgency as a possible way a civil war would play out. Asymmetrical wars (or Small Wars) are very hard for conventional armies to fight. And even harder to win.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which means that the president is ignoring the constitution. And so is the military. Very much not good...

I’m not sure the military is ignoring the constitution. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe they’re supposed to follow the president’s orders.

Can't say about South Korea, but plenty of militaries, including in the USA, are obligated to reject unconstitutional orders.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#670
post #9

[flagged]

True, it wasn’t all that long ago there was a coordinated campaign from the Republicans to paint Democratic leadership as colluding with Russia. Including a fabricated dossier, and the intelligence community unanimously and falsely declaring that Trump’s son’s laptop was a Russian misinformation plot and using that declaration to have tech giants and the media censor the story. No wait, I think I have that backwards…

That's incredibly misleading

Trump literally colluded with Russia, an authoritarian opponent of the US to undermine our elections. Plenty of honest conservatives were against him precisely because of that

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