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If not React, then what?

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Re: If not React, then what?

#661

Post by mvdtnz »

johnfn wrote: post #168

Reading over the authors primary reasons to not use React, they strike me as fundamentally misguided - mostly solving problems that most people don’t have. One reason it says that React is a poor choice is performance issues. But front end performance issues are almost never the most pressing issue to deal with. React performance concerns in the real world are typically measured in, at worst, hundreds of milliseconds…

> But front end performance issues are almost never the most pressing issue to deal with. React performance concerns in the real world are typically measured in, at worst, hundreds of milliseconds.

I'm guessing you're one of those developers who never browses the web on anything but the latest Macbook Pro and iPhone. I implore you to restrict yourself to some lower end devices for a few weeks and let us know if you still feel the same way.

Re: If not React, then what?

#662

Post by aerhardt »

xcrunner529 wrote: post #370
aerhardt wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why would OP or I switch away from React when we believe it's mature, stable, fast enough, and has a huge community, resources, and ecosystem? And perhaps most important of all: it's the tool we know.

Because it’s not and people hate these sites…I’m sorry…”apps” you make.

Aren't you brave, presumptuously insulting random people on the internet like that behind a fake name?

Re: If not React, then what?

#663

Post by baobabKoodaa »

quantadev wrote: post #644
baobabKoodaa wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never saw anyone on this thread deny that JS CAN be used without frameworks [...] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42282054 "brochure-ware" B-R-O-C-H-U-R-E-W-A-R-E

He's right. You have a project with two source files in it. That's basically not at any kind of scale he was talking about, and is easily classified as brochure-ware, from an architectural standpoint, simply because there's no architecture to it at all. Just a monolithic file.

> Just a monolithic file.

I was willing to assume good intentions from you earlier, but at this point it's clear you're just lying. You've seen the number of files in the repository, we already had a back and forth and you already conceded there was more than one file. And yet here you are, reiterating the same lie. Weird stuff.

Re: If not React, then what?

#664

Post by baobabKoodaa »

quantadev wrote: post #646
baobabKoodaa wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a seasoned developer. Your opinion is just your opinion, not a fact. Have you heard of Python by any chance? Pretty much the entire field of data science is built on top of a dynamically typed language. Plenty more seasoned developers working in that field.

Seasoned Python developers started using every type-safety feature available to them, as they've became available, just like JavaScript developers who know what they're doing have switched to TypeScript for the same exact reason. If Python was just fine without type-safety that's how everyone would have kept it.

> Seasoned Python developers started using every type-safety feature available to them, as they've became available, just like JavaScript developers who know what they're doing have switched to TypeScript for the same exact reason.

This is another lie from you. A vanishingly small minority of Python developers is using "every type-safety feature available to them". Not that it even matters to your earlier claim, because Python is not a type-safe language even for those developers who are using "every type-safety feature available to them". You claimed earlier that "Any language that lacks type-safety is completely inappropriate for large-scale projects" even though you seem to be aware of the fact that "seasoned developers" are using Python for "large-scale projects". So, again, you're just lying.

Re: If not React, then what?

#665

Post by baobabKoodaa »

quantadev wrote: post #469
baobabKoodaa wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First it was "10+ years experience", which would qualify me, but now you shifted the goalposts again to "decades" experience. Lol. I guess you can keep pretending that everybody who matters agrees with you when you just count everybody who disagrees as someone who doesn't matter

I originally typed "seasoned developer" and then I edited it to say decades. Neither one of us has perfect definition of "seasoned developer" in terms of precise years, and it doesn't even matter. But there are some things that are obvious to any seasoned developer and the value of type-safety is one of them. It's not my opinion. Is a fact. And yes if you say you have 10+ yrs and you don't prefer type-safe languages,…

> And yes if you say you have 10+ yrs and you don't prefer type-safe languages, then yes I indeed do not even believe you.

You don't believe what exactly? Don't believe I have 10+ yrs of experience? You can see that my GitHub account has activity from the past 10 years, so... you don't believe I prefer dynamic typed languages like Python? You think I actually prefer static typing and I'm lying about that? Like what?

Oh, and it just so happens that Python was the most popular language in the 2024 StackOverflow survey: https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2024/technology#2-programmin...

I guess literally none of those people were "seasoned developers" either, and none of them had ever worked in a "scaled" and "large" project, like you mr big man.

Re: If not React, then what?

#666

Post by baobabKoodaa »

lucsky wrote: post #310
000ooo000 wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you get weird stateful functions This is one of the reasons I think hooks stink. It seems like they tried so hard to avoid using classes that they came up with an opaque, framework-only way to manage state so that they could declare "ha! Stateless functions at last!". The state's still there, it's always gonna be there, it's just now hidden behind an abstraction that has a few footguns.

Again, you can still use class components today , feel free and have fun.

The question in this thread is "What do you find hard to learn about react". The question is not "are you allowed to not learn about react".

Re: If not React, then what?

#667

Post by mh- »

gf000 wrote: post #553
martinald wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that React is very single threaded (as is nearly everything in javascript). These phones might have 8 cores; but they tend to have the same single thread performance as 10+ year old iPhones.

That assumes that the bottleneck is JS parsing/execution. The browser itself is not single-threaded and can load/parse resources in parallel. And I don't buy that most websites would have react as the bottleneck, over the million other js libs, ads and tracking.

No one is asking you to buy it, there is tons of empirical data you can analyze for yourself.

Re: If not React, then what?

#668

Post by andybak »

eawgewag wrote: post #647
andybak wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He spent a chunk of the article defining exactly those terms. I know we're not supposed to accuse people of not rtfa but sometimes it's a struggle.

Said this somewhere else, but: honestly, that wasn't clear to me from the article, and judging by the comments section to this post, I don't think I'm alone. That's part of why I advocate for defining these terms up front, because one person is talking about whether or not Linear should be in React, another person is talking about whether or not Linear's docs should be in React. I don't appreciate the rudeness. I was…

I apologise for my rudeness.

Re: If not React, then what?

#669

Post by phailhaus »

LtWorf wrote: post #291
phailhaus wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because it's fucking absurd to me that I need a (then anyway) 700 MB app to stream music. You only know that factoid because you're an engineer and you looked it up. Users have absolutely no clue, and literally do not care.

Phones are literally sold at different prices when they have more storage. People are familiar with being unable to install more apps or take more pictures. Happens all the time. Get out of your bubble.

You are in the HN bubble. Layman users do not notice. They only care if the app works or not. A 700MB app on a phone with at minimum 128GB is nothing.

Re: If not React, then what?

#670

Post by phailhaus »

croes wrote: post #255
phailhaus wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because it's fucking absurd to me that I need a (then anyway) 700 MB app to stream music. You only know that factoid because you're an engineer and you looked it up. Users have absolutely no clue, and literally do not care.

Since when are engineers not users too?

When they make up a fraction of a percentage of users. If there was any pressure from users to make smaller apps, Spotify would have done it.
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