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Orion, our first true augmented reality glasses

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Re: Orion, our first true augmented reality glasses

#661
post #164

Decent hands on article from the verge with more info https://www.theverge.com/24253908/meta-orion-ar-glasses-demo... Wireless compute puck. 70 degree FOV. Resolution high enough to read text. Wrist band detects hand gestures and will be used in another product.

From using various VR systems, a hololens, and reading reviews of the vision pro I really feel like hand gestures are a bad way to interact with AR systems. They might work in a pinch (heh) but some sort of small controller that can act as a pointer and has a button or two is superior in every way. It's interesting that meta went through the effort of bundling an accessory but stuck with hand gestures anyway.

The article makes it sound like it's hand gestures plus gaze tracking which is a lot better.

Also the gestures are recognised by something you wear rather than cameras, so I'd expect them to be more reliable.

Re: Orion, our first true augmented reality glasses

#662
Has anyone posted a deep dive yet on pinning down which exact waveguide design is being used and which exact projector (based on past papers, M&A activity, key hires, etc.)? I'm surprised Karl Guttag hasn't published anything yet about either Orion or Spectacles 24. https://kguttag.com/ His blog is normally the definitive source for reverse-engineering AR optics systems from public information. Maybe someone posted a deep dive on Reddit or something ?

I'll post links here that could serve as a starting point:

- The microLED display panel vendor is likely to be Plessey: https://www.uploadvr.com/facebook-plessey-microled-deal/

- The waveguides are likely being produced "directly" by a contract manufacturer working under the direction of Meta's in-house team, and reporting appears to confirm that Meta is procuring the raw materials directly: "The silicon carbide waveguides are also proving challenging to procure. The material can deliver a wider field of view than the glass waveguides used in current transparent AR headsets, but it is also incredibly expensive. Further, Ma's report explained that because the material is used in military radars and sensors, the US government imposes strict export controls on it. That means glasses using it will have to be assembled inside the US, significantly raising the production cost, despite most of the manufacturing and components coming from China and Taiwan." https://www.uploadvr.com/meta-ar-glasses-lead-claims-as-mind...

One thing I don't understand is whether the current Orion announcement is actually a new announcement or is re-announcing an already publicized project. This article from 2023 talks about Orion and its 70 deg FOV in the past tense as a line of development which Meta considered but then decided to abandon after Orion in its plans for the 2027 consumer version to be called Artemis: https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/19/23800228/meta-ar-glasses-... "Meta’s Artemis glasses will reportedly use a glass waveguide, a component that allows light to travel through the glasses and into your eyes, potentially limiting its field of view to 50 degrees. According to The Information, Meta had originally planned to use silicon carbide, which allowed for a 70-degree field of view. The downgrade could make it harder for Meta’s consumer-focused glasses to stand out among the competition, as both Microsoft’s second-gen HoloLens and the Magic Leap One sport a 50-degree field of view."

Maybe the hope is that with the Orion test devices, Meta can see whether people care about 70 deg vs 50 deg FOV enough to justify the costs of US-based waveguide manufacturing for the generation after Artemis?

Disclaimer: I worked extensively on Snap Spectacles for a number of years so I'm highly biased, but credit where credit is due: I believe both Meta and Snap have done incredible work in their AR glasses and I am excited to see the competition heating up. I also hope that both company's efforts here can motivate Apple and Google to get in the game instead of sitting around doing more or less nothing really interesting or adventurous while cautiously sitting on piles of cash, while life passes us by and we get closer every day to old age. For heck's sake, either one of those tech giants could privately fund a LITERAL moon base, and they choose not to. Why should we have to live in a boring world? Life is short and I'd rather we get to see some very magical tech soon, in our lifetimes, instead of the tech companies conservatively waiting around for more of Moore's Law to happen first or something. Even Magic Leap, though a colossal failure, pursued a wonderful vision - to create innocent, whimsical literal magic in people's lives - like the world of Harry Potter - in our real world.

Re: Orion, our first true augmented reality glasses

#663
post #306
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From using various VR systems, a hololens, and reading reviews of the vision pro I really feel like hand gestures are a bad way to interact with AR systems. They might work in a pinch (heh) but some sort of small controller that can act as a pointer and has a button or two is superior in every way. It's interesting that meta went through the effort of bundling an accessory but stuck with hand gestures anyway.

6dof input from hand gestures is a killer feature but it has to be rock solid. So far only controllers can do it but it's getting much better every year. Haptic feedback, discrete buttons and precise analog input from controllers are also very important. The downside of controllers is that your hands are full and it's just not feasible for an all day wearable. Hopefully someone figures out a good compromise be it rin…

My killer feature will be a keyboard (/mouse) in a wristband(s), which comes along with, or nearby 6dof (also worthy, but not a personal grail).

Electromyography is an awesome technology, among other reasons, because it can (or will) detect neural signals below the activation (movement) threshold, meaning you should be able to train yourself to type without moving your fingers. A viable way to thought control without the invasive aspects of other approaches.

Back in the nineties, I said the computer user fifty years from then would look like a hippy. Headband (neural interface), sunglasses (I thought monitor, but AR is cooler), and a crystal around their neck (optical computer, maybe a miss, we'll see what the next decade brings, a slab in a pocket will do for now). Given my zero trust of end stage capitalism near my noggin, wristbands are an excellent transitional, as long as they're local (or can be made so, happy jail breaking)

Re: Orion, our first true augmented reality glasses

#664
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but people who brandish their phones know that they're performing the act of recording. Glasses that record are exactly not that.

it's better with glasses actually as you have to stare at what you're recording (whereas hidden cameras and phones can record without you realizing that)

No, it isn't. That gives the social cue "I am watching you". It explicitly, intentionally avoids giving the cue "I am recording you". It is misleading. Yes, there are other ways to mislead. That doesn't excuse this one.

Re: Orion, our first true augmented reality glasses

#665
post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They just launched the next twitter (Threads)

i have a long post why this is the future on my google wave

It’s been a minute since I actually laughed out loud via reading an HN comment.

In fairness, I think the GP was also being sarcastic.

Re: Orion, our first true augmented reality glasses

#667
post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "doesn't look too dorky" benchmark for me is the XReal Air line. They're a few years old now, and they aren't exactly AR glasses in the same way, but you'd expect the headline of this iteration of tech to be better looking. Not worse. I wonder what's actually in the frames. You wouldn't put bulk there if you had any other choice.

XReals have no battery or standalone function and top out at 50 degrees or so field of view. So the fact Orion is doing all of those function at 70 degrees, self powered and wireless is stunning .

Yeah, I'm not saying they're on par. You'd expect a 2024 device to be a functional step up from a 2022 device. I'm just surprised by how much less slick they look, given the comparator.

Re: Orion, our first true augmented reality glasses

#668
Does it come with the tools, onboard, needed to build apps for it?

No? Then its not a platform that will get my support.

Any new device in the modern era which requires permission from a third party in order for its owners to do whatever they want with it, is not a device worth supporting.

No matter how sexy it may seem, if you need permission to do something on the device, you are not the primary customer - your personal agency is being commoditized and re-sold.

Just, no. End technological feudalism, end the hegemony.

Demand development tools which free the user-developer and the platform.

Re: Orion, our first true augmented reality glasses

#669
post #646
post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they stopped forward investment today, Reality Labs would be profitable just selling Quest hardware and software and Meta Ray Bans. The reason it loses money hand over fist is because they are not nearly done yet with where they want the tech to be.

Source?

Revenue was cited at around $1bn for Q4 last year in their financial reports and about $2b full year [0]. I have to believe they could easily run the division at break even on $1-2b per year if they were not investing heavily in R&D on future devices and services.

[0] https://investor.fb.com/investor-news/press-release-details/...

Re: Orion, our first true augmented reality glasses

#670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very interesting. The company that looks most poised to capitalize on a product like this is still Apple. Wireless compute puck = iPhone Wrist band = Apple watch (although most people wear it on their non-dominant hand) From the videos it looks like Meta adopted Apple's UI of a horizontal handle bar underneath a window for interacting with a piece of content. Considering that the 100 degree field of view of t…

> The company that looks most poised to capitalize on a product like this is still Apple. It's also possible they don't ever put out an offering in this form factor. They never released a dual screen phone. They never released a touchscreen laptop. This might be one of those things they just don't touch. Also, I wonder if they'll have a tough time filling the form factor with stuff to do. The lack of apps was a huge…

> It's also possible they don't ever put out an offering in this form factor

Couldn't disagree more, if it was possible to bet on this I would bet all my money that they do release something like this. It'll probably be called the Vision Air or something. I don't remember which article it was, but there are reports that Tim Cook only agreed to fund and ship the Vision Pro because he was told that the same tech will be put into glasses in a few years.

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