Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport • Hacker News Board

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#661

Post by sam_lowry_ » Sun, Aug 25, 2024, 6:22 AM UTC

Fnoord wrote: post #646

vessenes wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted your comment so that it has a bit of visibility because I know some people think this, but I disagree with it, very strongly. First, your analogy is broken -- roads, telephones, pen and paper, motor vehicles all fit your description just as aptly. Second, you propose your preferred moral economy as one that only curtails harms. In fact, you create another harm implementing what you think is right. Reasonabl…

There are entire Telegram groups devoted to publishing CSAM. They're publicly available, not E2E encrypted. Being there in such a channel puts the data on your device, unencrypted. You can report it all you want. Nothing happens. Been there, done it. It is not just that. Weapons. Drugs. Terrorism [1]. Pornography depicting rape. [1] Includes accelerationism. France just had a terrorist attack on a synagogue. Germany…

[flagged]

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#662

Post by croes » Sun, Aug 25, 2024, 6:23 AM UTC

NayamAmarshe wrote: post #598

mikae1 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not being able to decrypt chats that he has no keys for… Except he (or his corporation) has keys for almost all initiated chats on the Telegram network. Only the private chats are E2EE and they're not default and rather inconvenient because they don't sync between devices (unlike Signal's E2EE chats).

Not really no. > To protect the data that is not covered by end-to-end encryption, Telegram uses a distributed infrastructure. Cloud chat data is stored in multiple data centers around the globe that are controlled by different legal entities spread across different jurisdictions. The relevant decryption keys are split into parts and are never kept in the same place as the data they protect. As a result, several cour…

Actually yes.

There is a difference between can't and won't.

They just make it hard to force them but they could if they want to.

Proper encrypted message can't be decrypted no matter how much they want to.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#663

Post by croes » Sun, Aug 25, 2024, 6:24 AM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #627

NayamAmarshe wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really no. > To protect the data that is not covered by end-to-end encryption, Telegram uses a distributed infrastructure. Cloud chat data is stored in multiple data centers around the globe that are controlled by different legal entities spread across different jurisdictions. The relevant decryption keys are split into parts and are never kept in the same place as the data they protect. As a result, several cour…

That's funny, because some time ago (well, some years ago) I swore people were crapping on telegram's encryption and telling it was almost fake But if it was so weak then various intelligence agencies wouldn't be bothering with it

You wouldn't anybody to know if it was easy to break.

So we actually don't know if it's weak or not.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#664

Post by Canada » Sun, Aug 25, 2024, 6:24 AM UTC

lmm wrote: post #503

a0123 wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Durov has been shilling his crypto scams while shitting on all those services you're talking about (well, at least Signal) claiming they don't do anything for privacy. Considering how he's tarnished Signal, there is absolutely no reason for them or anyone else to back him up. What will be very funny is the fact that Telegram is pretty much not encrypted (yeah ok, "secret chats", whatever sure) and now that investigat…

Signal also has a long history of shitting on their competitors with extremely questionable arguments, if not quite to the same extent as Telegram. The issues at stake here are far more important. Encrypted messengers had better hang together or they will surely hang separately.

Really? Examples?

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#665

Post by mijamo » Sun, Aug 25, 2024, 6:25 AM UTC

oska wrote: post #589

wordpad25 wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a large spectrum between total anarchy and totalitarian regime, so in the same way there is a spectrum in free speech.

No, there is no spectrum when it comes to Free Speech. Free Speech is an ideal that promotes total freedom to say whatever you want and is against all (state) censorship. (And btw, I'm unaware of anything that exists that is a 'spectrum' apart from the electromagnetic spectrum. To have the quality of being a spectrum, the subject must continuously span a 1-dimensional space. It's a way overused metaphor, in my opinio…

Then free speech does not currently exist anywhere, right?

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#666

Post by jongjong » Sun, Aug 25, 2024, 6:32 AM UTC

I can't make sense of how such people were able to get preferential treatment from governments and/or the media to the extent that their apps were able to get so much attention and traction to begin with, and yet the same government-media complex turns on them later for obscure reasons. At this stage, It seems like all these celebrity tech billionaires are government spies or working with intelligence agencies and are being persecuted for ceasing to play ball. Like there was some kind of deal where some elite group told them; we'll let your app gain traction but then you'll do everything we tell you, or else...

I just can't make sense of these serial entrepreneurs otherwise. Thousands of similar apps were launched which were the same or better than those ones. Why were these ones allowed to gain traction? Why these people were chosen?

Whenever I've met people who've had success in tech, it was clear that there were some weird dynamics behind the scenes which made them act in ways which were highly counter-intuitive and often involved sabotaging their own projects in some ways.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#667

Post by zx8080 » Sun, Aug 25, 2024, 6:32 AM UTC

twelve40 wrote: post #591

akira2501 wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All on a telephone, too.

and probably whatsapp, viber, signal, discord too?

Internet is so full of it. And also financial scam. When do they restrict it? /S

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#668

Post by astrobe_ » Sun, Aug 25, 2024, 6:34 AM UTC

apopapo wrote: post #376

sega_sai wrote: post #322

A bunch of people in comments here seem to misunderstand what telegram is. It is not just a messaging app, it is essentially a platform like twitter, with channels, hundreds of thousands of subscribers to those. While I fully support E2EE communication with no back-doors, I think it is perfectly fair for governments to have some control to take down large channels that are clearly against the law. I do not know the t…

So you endorse governments from the middle-east being in their right to delete anything they see as "illegal" because they are blasphemous for example?

National laws are largely based on the local morals; for instance in Europe breath is more or less indecent to show in public. A woman being topless on the beach, even in France, could be arrested, in theory (in practice it would just be "please put on some cloth, madam").

The laws are (usually) defined by the people of a country, based on their idea of morality, and are totally in their right to reject blasphemous stuff or whatever. It's their home, after all.

The only thing non-negotiable, to me, is that the Declaration of the Human Rights is universal and no law, anywhere, should go against them.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#669

Post by oska » Sun, Aug 25, 2024, 6:41 AM UTC

mijamo wrote: post #665

oska wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there is no spectrum when it comes to Free Speech. Free Speech is an ideal that promotes total freedom to say whatever you want and is against all (state) censorship. (And btw, I'm unaware of anything that exists that is a 'spectrum' apart from the electromagnetic spectrum. To have the quality of being a spectrum, the subject must continuously span a 1-dimensional space. It's a way overused metaphor, in my opinio…

Then free speech does not currently exist anywhere, right?

Well, it's an ideal that may be lived up to, protected and even enforced, and so it 'exists' whenever and wherever that happens.

It also happens to be an ideal that ppl will vigorously promote in certain domains, while betraying / discarding it in others.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#670

Post by compiler1410 » Sun, Aug 25, 2024, 6:42 AM UTC

compiler1410 wrote: post #250

From my experience those charges are valid and well deserved. As a Telegram user since 2015, I've spent 2 years actively reporting groups and individuals in posession of explicit materials involving children and animals. Some of my friends have also joined me in this effort. Unfortunately, Telegram never banned any of those groups and individuals which is a textbook case of not only being an accessory to crime, but a…

I don't understand why this comment is being downvoted. You guys are upset that I was trying to get pedos and zoos banned? You support what they're doing?