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10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

miamiherald.com

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Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#661

Post by 15155 »

anon291 wrote: post #553
vaidhy wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are American values static? If not, how did they change over time? Was it some group that used their capital and political organization to make the changes? If so, why is it ok for one group to advocate for a change, but the similar advocacy from another group is not ok? Just for introspection..

American values are... Pretty much static. We've been very anti government for a very long time. Left, right, center... Everyone solidly agrees they need less governance Leftists will scream about civil rights. Right wingers will tut tut about high taxes. Centrists will complain about both. But the message is clear... Less government. More individual autonomy

> Leftists will scream about civil rights.

(Except for that pesky Second Amendment)

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#662

Post by RubberbandSoul »

init wrote: post #639
wwtrv wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And then, once again, Europe blames the groups it refuses to accept. Can you explain in what way did this manifest in Sweden for instance? Or have any data/evidence besides some semi-vague claims about antisemitism and some immutable characteristics of European societies (which are hardly monolithic to begin with). It's not that I even necessarily disagree with what you're saying but unfortunately your comment is 8…

> Can you explain in what way did this manifest in Sweden for instance? Or have any data/evidence besides some semi-vague claims about antisemitism and some immutable characteristics of European societies (which are hardly monolithic to begin with). If you live in Sweden then you will also know that the state puts refugees in the same areas (Rinkeby, Vivalla, Tensta, etc ...). These areas are then labeled as unsafe b…

> state puts refugees in the same areas (Rinkeby, Vivalla, Tensta, etc ...).

No it doesn't. Refugees are placed in municipalities all over Sweden but most choose to move to the big cities as soon as they can and end up in these districts because they are the cheapest.

> slightly elevated crime rate.

Citation needed. Compared to what? Casual crime is very high compared to traditional Swedish society. Also a lot of crime goes unreported because the locals don't trust the police to be able to do anything.

> That's where the integration effort stops.

Simply not true. There are oodles of integration efforts all over Sweden at many levels; public projects, local initiatives and on top of that immigration heavy areas gets more public funding than average for schools, after-school activities, park/street cleanings, etc.

> Even professionals who move to Sweden for work have a hard time integrating in Swedish society.

That's because Swedish is a small language and most professionals don't plan on staying. Most Swedish professionals speak English on a native speaker level and most large Swedish companies has English as the official corporate language. In my experience most non-English speakers that comes to Sweden spend their efforts on becoming fully proficient in English while the English speakers are delighted to find that they can use English everywhere in society. Learning Swedish has a very low priority and after a couple of years most expats grows tired of the cold, darkness, taxes, low salaries, etc.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#663

Post by imtringued »

rapsey wrote: post #539
noduerme wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everywhere in Europe that welcomed Jews, their neighbors attacked them whenever the Plague came around, blaming them for poisoning wells. To be blunt, if that hadn't happened, the Jews would have probably disappeared into the general European population by the 15th Century. So you are supporting the point that village rumors led to a situation of permanent exclusion for Gypsies.

Jews were money lenders, which inherently instills a level of hatred.

The opposite. Money lenders were non-christians, because Christians were forbidden from charging interest. It is also easier to excommunicate a money lender if they aren't a fellow Christian, so the arrangement was actually to the benefit of Christians.

What you are doing is "affirming the consequent". Most Jews were working normal jobs (obviously excluding the ones they were legally barred) like everyone else.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#664

Post by 15155 »

anon291 wrote: post #552
hnpolicestate wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if * some* highly intelligent immigrants oppose American values? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. They may use their capital and ability to politically undermine our civil liberties. Most people globally aren't used to the American interpretation of free speech or gun rights. I don't want people coming here using their talents to politically remove my rights. I think this is a fair point to make.

Yeah personally I'm completely uninterested in skilled immigration. I think the only determining factor is if you demonstrate a commitment to American values. We do not need highly skilled authoritarians. I'd rather get the freedom loving farm worker from Mexico. I'm a Republican if that matters. I have met enough highly skilled immigrants in silicon valley to know that many hold American values in contempt. My own f…

How many of these individuals should we admit annually to our welfare regime?

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#665

Post by doetoe »

rapsey wrote: post #539
noduerme wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everywhere in Europe that welcomed Jews, their neighbors attacked them whenever the Plague came around, blaming them for poisoning wells. To be blunt, if that hadn't happened, the Jews would have probably disappeared into the general European population by the 15th Century. So you are supporting the point that village rumors led to a situation of permanent exclusion for Gypsies.

Jews were money lenders, which inherently instills a level of hatred.

I think this inverts cause and effect: they often were money lenders because they were excluded from more traditional jobs and/or land ownership

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#666

Post by 15155 »

sangnoir wrote: post #395
hnpolicestate wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't see it. Statistically or otherwise. Even if it were. It's a protected unalienable right. Cannot under any circumstances be circumvented. In my opinion of course.

> Cannot under any circumstances be circumvented. Tangentially - I find it fascinating how the originalists on the supreme court get fuzzy on what a "well regulated militia" meant at the time the amendment was written.

This argument is so tired: the meaning of this prefatory clause is not intended to be a limitation as some would hope.

Nobody is "fuzzy" - the left-most SCOTUS Justices don't make this argument, see Caetano v. Massachusetts.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#667

Post by dimgl »

PentiumBug wrote: post #290

As a Cuban that is currently living in Cuba, I think it might be useful to voice my opinions, as I have read some comments here which I consider less than accurate in some respects. To avoid typing too much, I'll summarize with... bullet points? * The published figure of 10 million people is already outdated. First, they are official figures, which means that they are not telling the truth. Second, six months have el…

> Is Cuba a dictatorship? No.

Lol Cuban here. This is disingenuous. By definition and in theory, a military dictatorship and a uniparty "republic" are not the same.

In practice, it is very much the same. They are extremely dangerous, oppressive regimes that are dominated by few families.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#668

Post by onlyperson »

Ma8ee wrote: post #652
init wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you explain in what way did this manifest in Sweden for instance? Or have any data/evidence besides some semi-vague claims about antisemitism and some immutable characteristics of European societies (which are hardly monolithic to begin with). If you live in Sweden then you will also know that the state puts refugees in the same areas (Rinkeby, Vivalla, Tensta, etc ...). These areas are then labeled as unsafe b…

It’s not the state that put the immigrants there, but outside those areas it’s almost impossible to find something to rent, and as an immigrant without a steady income it’s kind of impossible to buy anything.

[dead]

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#669

Post by doetoe »

bko wrote: post #381
noduerme wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> various European nations [...] some immigrant groups American Jew here, who spent years living in France and Spain. I've heard the same polite euphemisms refering to Arabs and Gypsies from the mouths of members of the Front National. You know, before 1945 it was said in Europe that Jews weren't able to integrate fully with the host society. One might ask: Was that the Jews' fault? Or the host society's fault? It's…

> It's a relevant question. You are blaming it on the particular group of migrants involved in the case of Europe right now. But historically Europe has ghettoized other groups. My understanding is that pre-WW2 Europe you had community groups that dealt with their people. So in a Jewish neighborhood, you had powerful Rabbis or other religious leaders that dole out law. These unofficial community leaders were given a…

It is ironic that you would speak of a country's values, especially in the context of the USA, where many people that consider each other Americans don't even accept each other's values

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#670

Post by weweweoo »

Ma8ee wrote: post #648
wwtrv wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And then, once again, Europe blames the groups it refuses to accept. Can you explain in what way did this manifest in Sweden for instance? Or have any data/evidence besides some semi-vague claims about antisemitism and some immutable characteristics of European societies (which are hardly monolithic to begin with). It's not that I even necessarily disagree with what you're saying but unfortunately your comment is 8…

As a Swede, we have always been very bad letting foreigners in. Most, even otherwise liberal and well educated, have been low key racist. One part has been that anyone not speaking perfect Swedish has been seen as bit stupid. Having a foreign sounding name has made it much harder to get to an interview. Imagine growing up with hard working parents with engineering or medical degrees working as cleaners because no one…

To be honest, it's also the quality of migrants that Sweden receives. The migrants joining gangs or getting radicalized in Sweden are primarily ones who arrived as asylum seekers, usually without much language and marketable job market skills, and with conservative cultural background that can be a burden. This is a big contract to the United States, which doesn't receive anywhere near as many refugees (adjusted to its size), and is generally more picky about migrants.

The welfare system doesn't work well with integration either. If all that is available to you are bad jobs due to your lack of job market / language skills, why work if welfare pays almost the same?

I think Sweden does a decent job integrating those migrants who arrive with sufficient skills for the job market. It's the rest that are problematic, and they would probably do better in the US with its lack of welfare state.

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