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Reverse engineering Ticketmaster's rotating barcodes

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Re: Reverse engineering Ticketmaster's rotating barcodes

#661

Post by ssl-3 »

xav0989 wrote: post #612
ssl-3 wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also the best answer. It's all off-the-shelf electronics and standard protocols. Venue provides some wifi with a "Ticketbastard" SSID (or whatever) at entry points, and the COTS-built barcode-validating devices use that. Easy-peasy. They might also provide other wireless networks for other purposes (definitely for vendors [$$$], but perhaps also for regular house staff, touring staff, and maybe even the guests w…

There’s actually a ton of interference in the 2.4 GHz space, especially at venues like outdoor festivals. However your solution does work. I work at a festival that provides a WiFi network and an Ethernet drop for the ticket scanners. We have to use multiple APs to cover the main entrance area, but it’s feasible.

I was thinking more along the lines of a stadium crowd than an outdoor festival, but yes: I agree. I've had miserable luck with 2.4GHz stuff in festival environments where people camp out for a few days. :)

I don't pay very much attention to the ticket-scanning devices while I'm getting into a big show (which is generally a rather unpleasant experience on my side), but:

Don't they allow usage of 5GHz bands? Unlike 2.4GHz, I've had tremendous success with 5GHz bands in all kinds of environments -- including outdoor festivals.

Re: Reverse engineering Ticketmaster's rotating barcodes

#662

Post by SoftTalker »

valleyer wrote: post #648
SoftTalker wrote: post #646

I don't understand how they're allowed to get aorund the first sale doctrine? Once I buy a ticket, it's my property. I should be able to sell it, by any means I want, to any person I want, at any price we agree upon.

Just addressing the how: the first sale doctrine applies to copies of copyrighted works, not to tickets.

OK, but the "first sale" doctrine really just says that copyrighted works are like any other item that is bought and sold?

So I haven't read their fine print lately---is Ticketmaster is not selling you a ticket, but a non-transferrable license to attend the event?

Re: Reverse engineering Ticketmaster's rotating barcodes

#663

Post by cyberbolt23 »

reddalo wrote: post #220
noodlesUK wrote: post #27

This sort of ticketing thing is a trivially solvable problem. It is solved at every airport in the entire world millions of times per day. You provide the name of each concertgoer when you buy a ticket, and they show up with their ticket and ID. You often need to show your ID at these kinds of venues to prove you're old enough to drink beer anyway.

Italy solved this. Five years ago, a new law enforced ID-checking when you enter any big events (like concerts with an audience larger than 5000 people). Tickets have your name on it, and you can only change the name or resell them through the official seller (so, third party resellers are out of the game). Also, every reselling transaction is registered and can be inspected by the Italian Rightsholder Agency (SIAE).

Because this, and more very strange rules it is very hard for ticketing systems to get into the Italian market. Some examples:

- not allowed to change to time or name of the event after the 1st ticket is sold

- only allowed section names in halls from a know list

- free tickets on events... can only do this under strange conditions

- smart card application, for encryption, must run on a physical server in Italy. You should not be able to log into the ticketing box office if that smart card application is not running.

Re: Reverse engineering Ticketmaster's rotating barcodes

#664

Post by Dylan16807 »

digging wrote: post #659
Dylan16807 wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying that your argument is absurd, but the one in the blog post is not absurd. You made a strawman. "A good person is obligated to quit a bad company." is a far more reasonable statement than "A good company is obligated to hire every good person." > Also, with regard to your scale - you've given the question too much credit. The question doesn't ask "how much are you good or bad?", it asks and receives a binar…

Alright. I just don't agree with you then. "A good person is obligated to quit a bad company" is a bullshit statement, unless the bar for "bad company" is a lot higher than I see it. I already asserted at the very beginning of the comment chain, almost every company is bad. That went unchallenged, so if that's the context, almost every person is bad, no matter how much they do good in the world. That is absurd.

> unless the bar for "bad company" is a lot higher than I see it.

Yes, the bar is higher (higher means it's harder to qualify as bad, right?) when talking about needing to quit.

> I already asserted at the very beginning of the comment chain, almost every company is bad. That went unchallenged

Because you went on to say it didn't matter anyway, so I focused on the latter part of your post.

Though I'm confused. You showed an argument that sorting companies into good and bad results in absurdity, but it only results in absurdity when the bar is super low. Why is your conclusion that sorting is impossible, rather than "the bar is too low", if you were already seriously considering that the bar needs to be higher?

Re: Reverse engineering Ticketmaster's rotating barcodes

#665

Post by mattmaroon »

giovannibonetti wrote: post #641
mattmaroon wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love it when a system has been working for hundreds of years through by far the most prosperous time in human history but people on the internet are sure it is wrong. No proof, no evidence, not even logic, just certainty. Also, I don’t think any of the issues with Ticketmaster have anything to do with patents.

Maybe we could just reduce the patent's duration to compensate for the acceleration of information diffusion caused by the internet in the last few decades. Does that seem reasonable to you?

What problem are we trying to solve? Why do we think there is a problem? If the idea behind the system was to give people a financial incentive to innovate, and since the system has been put in place humans have been exponentially more innovative than they were before, why do we think it needs fixing?

Nothing seems reasonable to me on the topic unless it comes with evidence as to how it would improve a system that would appear by any objective measure to be doing incredibly well.

And what does any of it have to do with ticket master? They’re awful in a lot of ways, but I’m not aware of patent trolling to be one of them. If they even have and enforce patents, I’ve not heard of them, and I work in live events so I’m fairly well-informed on that company. Everyone in the industry hates them, it's unlikely they’re doing anything awful that isn’t routinely mentioned.

Re: Reverse engineering Ticketmaster's rotating barcodes

#667

Post by sbarre »

NavinF wrote: post #626
sbarre wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An app absolutely can track more data than a website. You don't have the website open/active on your phone at all times, but you have the app installed at all times, even when it's not running. You do know that apps can record data in the background, right? A website is also sandboxed by your browser in a much stricter manner than an app is on your phone, at least by default. I don't have specific information on the…

I'm an app dev. What can I record in the background? What can I track?

If you're an app dev you're more qualified than me to answer that question.

Perhaps you'd like to re-frame your comment or ask a different question?

Re: Reverse engineering Ticketmaster's rotating barcodes

#668

Post by digging »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #664
digging wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright. I just don't agree with you then. "A good person is obligated to quit a bad company" is a bullshit statement, unless the bar for "bad company" is a lot higher than I see it. I already asserted at the very beginning of the comment chain, almost every company is bad. That went unchallenged, so if that's the context, almost every person is bad, no matter how much they do good in the world. That is absurd.

> unless the bar for "bad company" is a lot higher than I see it. Yes, the bar is higher (higher means it's harder to qualify as bad, right?) when talking about needing to quit. > I already asserted at the very beginning of the comment chain, almost every company is bad. That went unchallenged Because you went on to say it didn't matter anyway, so I focused on the latter part of your post. Though I'm confused. You sh…

I don't think the bar should be higher for bad deeds! I prefer a lower bar. I see a lot of stuff happen in the world that I really don't want to happen (on topic: privacy invasions for profit), and it's not publicly called bad nearly enough.

I also thinks it's misleading and not very useful to call people good or bad, in general. I'm more comfortable with calling capitalist corporations "bad" as a blanket statements; resource-hoarding is their utmost priority, and I consider that an evil motivation.

My conclusion isn't that sorting is impossible, it's that people are too complex to be sorted into "good" and "bad", in general... and that it's shitty and incorrect to call ordinary people bad if they aren't willing to risk everything to work for a slightly less evil company in a world made of evil companies.

Re: Reverse engineering Ticketmaster's rotating barcodes

#669

Post by Dylan16807 »

digging wrote: post #668
Dylan16807 wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless the bar for "bad company" is a lot higher than I see it. Yes, the bar is higher (higher means it's harder to qualify as bad, right?) when talking about needing to quit. > I already asserted at the very beginning of the comment chain, almost every company is bad. That went unchallenged Because you went on to say it didn't matter anyway, so I focused on the latter part of your post. Though I'm confused. You sh…

I don't think the bar should be higher for bad deeds! I prefer a lower bar. I see a lot of stuff happen in the world that I really don't want to happen (on topic: privacy invasions for profit), and it's not publicly called bad nearly enough. I also thinks it's misleading and not very useful to call people good or bad, in general. I'm more comfortable with calling capitalist corporations "bad" as a blanket statements;…

Well this just sounds like more reason to use a point scale rather than calling the entire idea a waste of time.

In particular 'slightly less evil' is not the goal.

Re: Reverse engineering Ticketmaster's rotating barcodes

#670

Post by NavinF »

sbarre wrote: post #667
NavinF wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an app dev. What can I record in the background? What can I track?

If you're an app dev you're more qualified than me to answer that question. Perhaps you'd like to re-frame your comment or ask a different question?

My point is that you and the other guy are just making stuff up and spreading misinformation. At the API level, an app that doesn't have the user's explicit permission to get location, camera, run in the background, etc is not that different from a web app. My question was obviously rhetorical.
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