Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

661–670 of 1001 posts

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#661

Post by protomolecule »

bjourne wrote: post #504
codekaze wrote: post #213

I think the primary argument for banning TikTok should be based on reciprocity rather than moral and/or security concerns. We can make similar arguments about the negative effects of Facebook, Instagram, and etc. even from the POVs of other countries, but the key issue here is that China heavily restricts foreign apps and services from operating in their market. If China is unwilling to allow US companies to compete…

The word "reciprocity" cannot hide the fact that two wrongs doesn't make a right. We think it is wrong of China to censor Facebook and Twitter because that is what authoritarian regimes that don't give a shit about free speech do. For exactly the same reason it is wrong of the US to ban TikTok. And this bill has nothing to do with balancing international trade. It's stated purpose is to restrict China's ability to in…

No, no, no. China and Russia are banning Facebook, Instagram and whatnot because they are evil dictatorships. The US is banning TikTok because China is evil dictatorship.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#662

Post by andrewla »

DebtDeflation wrote: post #562
throwaway237289 wrote: post #19

Don't be fooled by talk about security or privacy. This is simple Nation State realpolitik. TikTok is a propaganda threat controlled by a non-friendly state to the US. Any other way to look at this is naive.

It's not even just about propaganda. Watch Tik Tok videos in China and it's all young people helping the elderly, learning job skills, and doing other socially virtuous things. Watch Tik Tok videos outside of China and it's all videos of kids stealing cars, eating Tide pods, and pranking people in Home Depot.

Just to be clear, is this based on your own experience, or did you just see a video or news article (or other piece of propaganda) making this claim?

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#663

Post by insane_dreamer »

dartharva wrote: post #477
codekaze wrote: post #213

I think the primary argument for banning TikTok should be based on reciprocity rather than moral and/or security concerns. We can make similar arguments about the negative effects of Facebook, Instagram, and etc. even from the POVs of other countries, but the key issue here is that China heavily restricts foreign apps and services from operating in their market. If China is unwilling to allow US companies to compete…

Plenty of American companies operate in Chinese consumer markets, Apple for example. One fifth of Apple's annual revenue comes from China, yet the country never retaliated with banning it while the US turned the whole world against Huawei.

Apple is not a social media company.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#664

Post by deciplex »

jrockway wrote: post #486
codekaze wrote: post #213

I think the primary argument for banning TikTok should be based on reciprocity rather than moral and/or security concerns. We can make similar arguments about the negative effects of Facebook, Instagram, and etc. even from the POVs of other countries, but the key issue here is that China heavily restricts foreign apps and services from operating in their market. If China is unwilling to allow US companies to compete…

I don't think we should "lowest common denominator" to oppressive regimes. Our Constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." TikTok, at the end of the day, is just a kind of…

> I don't think we should "lowest common denominator" to oppressive regimes.

Chinese approval of their government is much higher than most Western regimes including the US. I think you are right about how we ought to apply the 1st amendment here, but I don't find that Chinese propaganda is any more insidious or pervasive than American. We just manage it differently: in China the state directly controls the media, while in the US business interests directly control the state and the media.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#665

Post by criddell »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #618
criddell wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other countries do ban US apps. For example, Twitter/X is banned in China, Iran, Russia, North Korea, and a few other countries.

Good to see the crowd we're joining then.

I don't see it as being significantly different from our laws prohibiting foreign ownership of tv and radio stations.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#667

Post by sophacles »

layer8 wrote: post #574
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US freedom applies only to citizens and residents and not foreign govts.

That’s part of what is being criticized. Human rights are supposed to be universal, and some countries actually handle them like that, applying them to citizens and foreigners alike.

What human right is being violated? This is about what types of business are allowed to domestic and foreign entities. I've never heard anyone declare "its a basic human right for institutions designed to do business behind a liability shield to do as they please anywhere and any time".

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#668

Post by cogman10 »

jrockway wrote: post #486
codekaze wrote: post #213

I think the primary argument for banning TikTok should be based on reciprocity rather than moral and/or security concerns. We can make similar arguments about the negative effects of Facebook, Instagram, and etc. even from the POVs of other countries, but the key issue here is that China heavily restricts foreign apps and services from operating in their market. If China is unwilling to allow US companies to compete…

I don't think we should "lowest common denominator" to oppressive regimes. Our Constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." TikTok, at the end of the day, is just a kind of…

This is a common misunderstanding of what the first amendment means.

Speech and individual expression are individual rights and not institution rights. Perhaps you have some argument with "freedom of press" but that's a pretty hefty uphill battle for TikTok to prove that they are press and not just a random social media business.

Some of our oldest and most well supported laws revolve around limiting what a business can and can't say. For example, a supplement company can't advertise "This fish oil will cure your cancer!"

The interstate commerce law gives congress the power to make laws that regulate businesses (that operate over state boundaries). That power includes things like outright banning a business for pretty much any reason.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#669

Post by jrsj »

LinuxBender wrote: post #629

The move escalates a showdown between Beijing and Washington over the control of technologies that could affect national security, free speech and the social media industry. I will get beat up for this question but here goes. They are using the word "could" . Does this mean there is no evidence of TikTok exfiltrating sensitive intelligence data to the CCP? The reason I ask is that if this were actually taking place t…

There's no evidence of that happening & it really isn't even about that. It's about the popularity of pro-Palestinian content on TikTok. The other social media giants have censorship policies on this that tilt things towards a pro-Israel perspective, but TikTok does not and is being targeted for it.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#670

Post by ProcNetDev »

groggo wrote: post #649
lumb63 wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone wants to subject themselves to CCP propaganda, why stop them? If they’re that lacking in critical thinking, then maybe they’re getting what they deserve. It’s not like anyone is forcing people to use TikTok.

The funny thing is there's not really that much propaganda on TikTok, much less pro-CCP. Sure there's the potential, but it's really not even much of a thing IRL.

Go make some videos about Taiwan, Tiananmen, or Tibet and see what the algo does to you.
Post reply on HN