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Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

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Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#661

Post by trashtester »

pzo wrote: post #452
ardaoweo wrote: post #334

Here in Finland apparently 50% of 35yo males, and 35% of 35yo females have no children. Fertility rate in 2023 was 1.26. In comparison, 2015 saw fertility rate of 1.65, and it has been below replacement level since 1969. 61% of under 40yo people live in rental apartments, this share having risen about 10% from 2010. Also, apartments built today are about 9 square meters smaller on average compares to 10 years ago. I…

I'm just always wondering why the ratio is not more close 50% / 50% between males and woman? On birth male/female ratio is pretty much 50/50. So at any stage (except older >70 because woman usually lives longer) ratio should be similar. LGBT are just 10% of population and distribution between gays/lesbians seems also 50/50. Based on that if there is a single male there is another single female somewhere. The only rea…

For a woman (with a working utero) to have a baby, all that is needed is ONE man willing to have unprotected sex with her. Those are not hard to find, especially if she's willing to lie about whether she's on the pill.

A man will generally only become a father if he finds a woman that WANTS to have children with him. If he's unattractive, chances are she will select someone else. Many women will prefer even married men over an unattractive, low status one.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#662

Post by mlrtime »

princeb wrote: post #559
sneed_chucker wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The societal norms and structures that promoted natalism are gone in western countries for much of the population. Raising kids is hard work. Ideally you have them young and live close to your family so that you have grandparents to help with childcare. But our society tells people to wait as long as possible to have kids, and to prioritize career over other things - so once people do have kids, if they ever do so, t…

singapore gives generous subsidies to working adults with children who hire live-in helpers/nannies. the government spent a lot of money on subsidizing tertiary education and the last thing they need are adults dropping out of the workforce after earning a diploma or a degree. many families hire a live-in helper, who is typically a low-income migrant worker from a neighbouring country. due to space constraints only t…

Not disagreeing with what you wrote above....

However, some of the spaces created for the legal live-in helpers [I've seen in Hong Kong and Singapore] would be considered substandard in the US. I'm talking closet size rooms with no windows big enough for a single bed and a few shelves.

If the US would allow this domestic help and possibly the same rooms, child care would be much easier.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#663

Post by macNchz »

kelnos wrote: post #502
xyzelement wrote: post #141

I was lucky that my wife convinced me to move close to her family (it would have never occurred to me.) Now we live just a few doors down from her brother who's got 4 kids, and we have 2. Watching the cousins intermingle is an amazing and unique experience. It's kinda sad but it's also obvious that people are majorly missing out. On having kids, on living close to family, on all of it. Ironically, this is evolution i…

That's not how evolution works, and it's not at all clear that a desire or lack of desire to have children is genetic or hereditary. Yes, people who don't have kids are ending their genetic line when they die. But that doesn't mean that people who have kids are necessarily increasing the pool of people who want kids, percentage-wise.

> But that doesn't mean that people who have kids are necessarily increasing the pool of people who want kids, percentage-wise.

Yeah I imagine that large families tend to result in adults who are themselves likely to have more kids than average, but things can certainly shift. Among my extended family, for example: my grandmother was one of 11 kids, my mom was one of 7, my aunts and uncles largely had 3-4, and my cousins mostly have 2-3. This is a tight-knit crowd, with a strongly pro-family culture (Catholicism), living in proximity with regular get-togethers, neighboring lake cottages etc, but clearly not immune to broader trends.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#664

Post by graemep »

silisili wrote: post #397
bongodongobob wrote: post #75

You're baffled people aren't having kids? What bubble do you live in? People straight up can't afford housing much less children. The avg American is completely priced out of owning a home right now. Edit: the replies - y'all are out of touch. Visit an average family in the Midwest with a household income of < $100k/yr that doesn't own a home yet.

Yes they can. People are just too selfish and think of kids as costing lattes and ruining their free time. Believe it or not, kids don't have to be expensive as reports have you believe. They can go to public school, wear hand me downs or walmart clothes, and eat what would have been leftovers. Most coworkers with kids I've spoken with complain about costs of daycare, babysitting, and Montessori schools. We pay for n…

> Anyone on the fence who wants a kid - go for i

I agree. Having kids in incredibly rewarding and fulfilling.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#665

Post by wikidani »

TomK32 wrote: post #620

My daughter is an only child but has eight cousins (that I know of, most are in her age range) but barely spends time with them. She's not missing out on anything because she has a large circle of friends her age, be it from the public playground when they only started walking, kindergarden or now the first three years in school. It takes some effort as a parent and tbh dumping-the-child-at-her-friends-and-vice-versa…

I don't think cars are the biggest issue here though, most people I know seem to be worried about the lack of third spaces that are clean and wouldn't expose their children to crime or drug use for example.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#666

Post by justworkout »

bongodongobob wrote: post #75

You're baffled people aren't having kids? What bubble do you live in? People straight up can't afford housing much less children. The avg American is completely priced out of owning a home right now. Edit: the replies - y'all are out of touch. Visit an average family in the Midwest with a household income of < $100k/yr that doesn't own a home yet.

Home ownership and prices have no effect on people having kids. Income does. You'll find loads of kids in low income areas but far fewer in middle income areas.

Everyone online complains about wealth being the reason they won't have kids, but it's not the case. Once people make one step up in their career, they want to make another and kids become an impediment. No matter the country, you'll find higher numbers of kids when people (and especially women) are deprived of education and work opportunities. Then you also have eccentric billionaires that have a dozen kids, but they're statistically irrelevant.

If you want families to have kids, cut wages, don't let women work, cram them into undesirable homes, and most importantly, ignore people who say they'd have kids if only they made a little more money. They won't stop once they get a taste of better living. They'll be very stressed out people, but they'll have kids.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#667

Post by swat535 »

Aeolun wrote: post #133
boredtofears wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it not strike you as strange though that so many different nations / cultures are all seeing the same downward trend at the same time? There is something about it that feels like a biological imperative.

We have better things to do than hump like rabbits? We don’t need kids to work the farm, or to provide net positive muscle power input to the economy. We have machines for that.

> We have better things to do than hump like rabbits?

Correction: we still hump like rabbits, at much higher rates than before (welcome hookup culture) and broadcast it to the world for millions to watch.

We are simply not having children.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#668

Post by TuringNYC »

tedajax wrote: post #649
christophilus wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents had three kids while living on a single salary that put us below into the poverty line for the first half of my childhood. I had a very happy childhood. Everything I had (even my underwear!) was a handmedown. I’m not saying it’s easy, but it’s possible. It’s a matter of priorities. I’m glad my parents made the hard choices they did.

The point is people watched their parents struggle to raise kids and decide they aren't going to do that to themselves or their hypothetical kids. There is more to do in a life than work and raise children.

This comment is spot on IMHO -- yes, of course it is possible. But it isnt desirable for many of us who went thru it.

I similarly grew up at the poverty line as my parents got crushed by double-digit inflation. Based on personal experience, I didnt want the same for my kids -- so we have 2 though we'd love to have 4.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#669

Post by shepherdjerred »

brailsafe wrote: post #463
shepherdjerred wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaining perspective by inspecting arbitrary points in history can be quite useful.

Perhaps emotionally or spiritually, which may be important, but I don't think enough to be practical. Those arbitrary points in history existed under their own constraints and opportunity or difficulty, and looking back further wouldn't necessarily have had much of an impact unless the future from that point looked quite promising.

I can only speak from personal experience, but I have found it to be immensely valuable in:

* Appreciating what I have today

* Not fearing the future in regards to global warming, war, and other instability

* Accepting that my life could turn completely upside down in an instant, e.g. due to economic instability, war, etc.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#670

Post by shepherdjerred »

mihalycsaba wrote: post #432
shepherdjerred wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do wonder what I’d say if/when people question the fervor of my belief though, if I truly converted just for a community with larger families. I imagine “I believe in big families” wouldn’t cut it. There's nothing wrong with that. Nobody should have a problem with you wanting to be a part of a church community, even if you aren't a "real" believer.

People just want to be part of a community. Most of the time the only available open communities are church communities, so that's better than nothing.

Yes, I totally agree. I'm simply saying that you don't have to be uber religious to be a part of a church community. A good church should make you feel accepted no matter who you are.

There are perhaps exceptions, e.g. if you are intentionally trying to harm the church or members of it, but otherwise the church should accept you as you are -- "true" believer or not.

In practice you will probably find a lot of "bad" churches, so you'll probably have to shop around a little bit.

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