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Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

bloomberg.com

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Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#661

Post by bluGill »

toyg wrote: post #649
xwolfi wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but petrol cars weren't serviced as well as now when they started (arguably with a much longer range per much faster "charge", maybe). EVs are probably going to be a good idea, it'll just take time. Imagine in 1995 saying emails will never replace sending around documents at the office, just because there wasn't any infra yet. Wait a bit, or even help !

ICE cars had an advantage though: if you ran out of petrol, you could hitch to the closest garage, fill up a tank, and you were back in business. With EVs it's always going to require a tow, which is a nightmare experience I don't recommend to anyone.

There are non tow options for evs. a ev can recharge another (non do this, but they could). Or a generator can be brought to the ev.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#662

Post by bluGill »

fsckboy wrote: post #504
xwolfi wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but petrol cars weren't serviced as well as now when they started (arguably with a much longer range per much faster "charge", maybe). EVs are probably going to be a good idea, it'll just take time. Imagine in 1995 saying emails will never replace sending around documents at the office, just because there wasn't any infra yet. Wait a bit, or even help !

today, i consider email to be a failure, Imagine saying that in 1995. I rarely get them or have a need to send them which amplifies the spam ratio. It annoys me to get and send pdfs in text messages, but that seems to be how the world works now.

In 1995 email was very common, but it was always a propriatory system that only could be used in your office. Very little was connected to an outside network.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#663

Post by robertlagrant »

closewith wrote: post #644
robertlagrant wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you'd be a 2025 Model 2[0] customer? [0] https://www.whatcar.com/news/tesla-model-2/n25636

It really is a shame that Musk has tarnished the Tesla brand so much, because this looks like a great car.

I think outside of the "is speech good or evil"-osphere, most people would still aspire to have a Tesla.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#664

Post by masklinn »

malfist wrote: post #635
masklinn wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me battery swapping makes no sense for consumer cars unless it’s used to significantly increase prices (possibly by removing home charging as well): battery swapping requires a ton more maintenance, space, infrastructure, and logistics, constrains vehicles enormously, and requires a very small number of standard battery formats.

Battery swapping is also not very accessible, not evening can lift 50+ pounds

Oh battery swapping would be entirely automated, no way you'd do it at home (let alone on the reg).

Nio Inc. has videos of the process, and that's what you'd expect (and I assume what tesla tried at one time), you drive to a booth, the car gets locked in and the battery is replaced automatically, then you drive out.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#665

Post by bluGill »

osullip wrote: post #503
citiguy wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rented a Model 3 from Hertz last year and drove about 120 miles in it. Due to the super cold weather (like 12 degrees), plus the fact that I drove in the mountains in New England, and I used the heat (it was freezing and I had my child with me), I had the charge the car 1/2 way there, which made me stop in the middle of nowhere for 30 minutes while I waited at a super charger. Honestly this experience stunk. I thin…

You can stop half way and recharge? That is amazing!

Pretty much anywhere. chargers are scattered all over. not every town has them, they are often hidden, and off the beaten path. If you start navigating to them when you are down to 150 miles of range you will ba okay and not have to go too far out of your way.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#666

Post by b112 »

klodolph wrote: post #545
b112 wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here we go. If the storage problem is an issue, how are all these h2 cars getting refueled? And how is the h2 getting to them? And how is it stored before shipping? It's not a problem. At all.

“It’s a problem” is not the same as “it is impossible.” Likewise, “It’s possible to ship and store H2” is not the same thing as “it’s not a problem to ship and store H2”.

Meanwhile, the presumed "problem" was "preventing adoption", yet my counter point invalidated your statement. H2 is a success. It's stored. It's usable, in consumer driving applications. It's being refueled by consumers, right now, world wide.

It's not a problem. At all.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#667

Post by mmaurizi »

Xenoamorphous wrote: post #646
dcchambers wrote: post #453

Im bullish on EVs but I feel like rental cars are one of the worst places for the current generation of EVs. EVs are best for the types of driving we do on a day-to-day basis. Short commutes in areas we know well. Charge at home over night and 95% of the year you never worry about charging. Renting a car means I'm usually either driving long distances or im somewhere new and I don't know about the local charging infr…

> Charge at home over night If you have a private garage. I live in a (non-US) city where there's shared garages (those who do have a garage, a lot of them just park outside) which are old and not always have power sockets. And even if they do, I don't think you're entitled to use them to charge your car. And do EVs work with standard power sockets, or needs some special stuff? I've never driven an EV.

They work with standard power outlets, just very slowly. Our Hyundai gets 50 miles of range every 24 hours its plugged in at home.

Mostly I charge at work not at home, which uses 240v power (think an electric dryer), and that can charge the car fully in 8-10 hours.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#668

Post by b112 »

wenyuanyu wrote: post #552
b112 wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why h2 is the answer. h2 that is shown to work, regardless of all the hyperbole and reckless claims battery fans make.

Honestly, H2's got a long long way (if viable at all) to go as the future of clean cars. There is not much natural H2. In a way, H2 acts like a battery as well using electricity to produce from H2O, and discharge as electricity to H2O. Producing it cleanly, like with green power, isn't efficient yet – it's only around 70% efficient. Plus, getting H2 from the factory to the customer is way way pricier than just using…

There's no clean power for cars at all. Every extra joule of energy used by cars, should be considered coming from the dirties of fuels... because the first thing we do, when we have an excess of power generation, is turn off the dirty plants.

But outside of that, these things will improve, although your numbers are a bit out there.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#669

Post by closewith »

robertlagrant wrote: post #663
closewith wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is a shame that Musk has tarnished the Tesla brand so much, because this looks like a great car.

I think outside of the "is speech good or evil"-osphere, most people would still aspire to have a Tesla.

I don't know. I live in Ireland and Teslas have definitely lost their caché in general. Certainly nobody has a positive impression of Elon.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#670

Post by hnbad »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #521
tuatoru wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... trying to find chargers with the right plug, ones that aren't broken, ones that were available, downloading various apps, etc. Then when I did find a charger I sat in the parking lot waiting for it to juice up. These considerations are why I think we'll eventually move to battery swapping, when the market is mature enough to have standards for batteries. When there are as many battery swapping stations as there…

Swappable batteries are a huge fire hazard. They stopped doing that even for scooters. Too dangerous.

There's a difference between user-swappable and battery-as-a-service. There is a company called NIO that seems to be successfully doing battery-as-a-service in China right now and is trying to expand this platform to Europe. They're also in talks with other manufacturers who seem to be interested in developing a common standard to make the batteries interchangeable so the stations can service other brands too.

There may be safety concerns (e.g. if I understand it correctly, the swapping process is fully automated and the car locks the doors and takes over steering, so I'm not sure how this deals with emergency scenarios where the driver might need to leave the car or intervene) but as far as the driver is concerned they never touch the battery so the risk of accidents from improper wiring is significantly reduced.

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