Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC • Hacker News Board

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#661

Post by jgilias » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 9:54 AM UTC

kbrkbr wrote: post #564

fsckboy wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if they diverge because an economic shitstorm has started and everybody is buying food for survival with bitcoin, but the rump government still wants its cut of your new mad gainz, bitcoin in the ETF and bitcoin out of the ETF might maintain independent values, FEC vs RMB

Talking about extreme situations, here is another possible scenario - if electricity is then rationed and works only for two hours a day, people with cigarettes or gold may actually buy the food, while people with Bitcoin go hungry, and the value may plummet.

This needs to happen worldwide though. And if that’s the case I have a hunch that the value of my investments might just be the least of my concerns.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#662

Post by TrackerFF » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 9:57 AM UTC

monero-xmr wrote: post #8

The death of crypto was written endlessly on HN. The investor activity is much more bullish over last 6 months. I think the only hot VC right now in all of tech is AI and blockchain. Now a lot of people here will be investing in Bitcoin without even knowing it, as their passive fund investments begin accumulating. The sweet victory against the no coiners.

Funds have guidelines to follow.

For the very same reason that (for example) pension or union fund managers can't just allocated x% of their portfolio to blackjack or rolling the dice.

Crypto is still INCREDIBLY high volatility and high risk. Crypto is also a pretty shitty instrument with regard to hedging, as they all follow the same movement.

Mitigating risk in crypto is very much a hands-on job.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#663

Post by Galanwe » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 9:58 AM UTC

TrackerFF wrote: post #658

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #526

I can't help thinking that Bitcoin ETFs could mark "Peak Bitcoin". When lots of people are trading it at their high street broker in their regular account, Bitcoin becomes just a number in a box - a crypto currency without crypto - with nothing underlying it.

There is no underlying value. No intrinsic value. The value is purely a function of speculative demand. And while previously people anticipated the demand would go up "organically" because of actual real-world usage, you know to pay for stuff and such, that hasn't really materialized in the way we hoped. How many actually use BTC for things like that? At its BEST it has usage to purchase other coins - but that's abou…

Bitcoin has no day to day usage because of its volatility. The more ETFs like that appear, the lower it's volatility, and thus you will be able to see real world usage pop up.

Also, the more regulation, the easier it will be to hold and use BTC to buy stuff.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#664

Post by rmbyrro » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 9:58 AM UTC

cturner wrote: post #660

pavlov wrote: post #531

My prediction is that Bitcoin will become fully institutionalized within twenty years, to the point that the “Bitcoin” held by investors are entirely disconnected from the theoretical blockchain. A similar thing happened with stocks. Not so long ago they used to be physical pieces of paper. You could trade shares peer-to-peer and even anonymously by handing over the share certificate to someone in person. For dividen…

There is an important difference between shares and crypto: US shares exist as a result of US legislation. Hence, it is straightforward to make regulatory or legislative changes for the operation of a share market. This is not true of crypto. Crypto is more like a currency than a share. It is transnational - if one jurisdiction applies regulatory burden, activity will flow somewhere else without that changing the ope…

Nothing prohibit the US from legislating bitcoin.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#665

Post by qwytw » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 9:59 AM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #631

pyvpx wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this assumes USD hegemony is a distant memory. does bitcoin have the largest weapons cache and standing military in the history of humanity? best of luck to your imagined future; but it reads very naive to me.

The US really dropped the hammer on Russia last year and yet Russian troops kept advancing. There isn't much proof-in-the-pudding right now that they can stop a top-10 global economy. This isn't the 90s and it isn't clear how much the US can throw their weight around.

> Russian troops kept advancing

Did they? The war is in a stalemate. Militarily this isn't that different than the proxy wars of the Cold War EXCEPT Russia has suffered more casualties by a magnitude or two than the USSR did in Afghanistan or the US in Vietnam. For the Russian regime this war is now 100% an existential threat.

For the US from an entirely a real-politik point of view, if the end goal is to defeat Russia dragging the war on might even be a preferable option. After this is over Russian will be militarily crippled for the next 10-20 years due to massive and unsustainable manpower and economic costs. The balance of power will tip even further towards NATO making any further Russian expansion in Eastern Europe impossible (especially now that Finland and Sweden have joined).

Of course Ukraine is caught in between...

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#666

Post by npoc » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:00 AM UTC

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #653

npoc wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decentralised exchanges provide a solution, but if a country tries to stifle bitcoin like this, then the bitcoiners can just leave and live somewhere else, taking their wealth with them as 12 words in their head. History shows that societies with the hardest money win.

> History shows that societies with the hardest money win. I think I’d like that to be true, but I don’t see much evidence of it. Do you have some examples?

The simple fact that there's no societies left using shells, beads, Rai stones, etc. Only the hardest money survived - gold.

However although gold is hard, it fair to say that it was beaten somewhat by soft fiat money, simply due to the overwhelmingly better other monetary qualities of fiat (e.g. portability and divisibility) especially in the digital age.

Bitcoin is a hard money that takes the best monetary qualities of both fiat and gold, improves them, and combines them into a single asset with which neither fiat or gold (or shells or beads for that matter) can compete.

It would have been more accurate for me to have said "societies with the _best_ money win"

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#667

Post by qwytw » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:02 AM UTC

npoc wrote: post #633

ibz wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. It always was.

Bitcoin equalises this. USD is going to hyper-inflate to 0 relative to bitcoin, and bitcoin will ultimately be the world reserve asset.

> world reserve asset.

Except it's extremely unsuited for this purpose despite of what some delusional people might be thinking. No (at at least semi stable) country ever will use bitcoin as their primary reserve asset...

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#668

Post by qwytw » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:05 AM UTC

npoc wrote: post #637

Nursie wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if the US regulators want to change how a crypto is traded ... tough biscuits They can happily regulate on and off ramps, and enforce traceability etc for anything that touches the 'real' economy though, should they wish.

Decentralised exchanges provide a solution, but if a country tries to stifle bitcoin like this, then the bitcoiners can just leave and live somewhere else, taking their wealth with them as 12 words in their head. History shows that societies with the hardest money win.

> just leave and live somewhere else, taking their wealth with

Wealth can't really use to purchase anything with is not real wealth. If you can't convert bitcoin to $/€ it becomes effectively worthless

> History shows that societies with the hardest money win.

Objectively not true. Look at what happened with Britain after 1918 when tried doing everything they could to stick with "hard" money and avoid devaluation/dropping the gold standard.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#669

Post by qwytw » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:07 AM UTC

npoc wrote: post #666

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> History shows that societies with the hardest money win. I think I’d like that to be true, but I don’t see much evidence of it. Do you have some examples?

The simple fact that there's no societies left using shells, beads, Rai stones, etc. Only the hardest money survived - gold. However although gold is hard, it fair to say that it was beaten somewhat by soft fiat money, simply due to the overwhelmingly better other monetary qualities of fiat (e.g. portability and divisibility) especially in the digital age. Bitcoin is a hard money that takes the best monetary qualitie…

> Bitcoin is a hard money that takes the best monetary qualities of both fiat and gold

Not it doesen't. Also bitcoin is not money (why do people keep claiming this?), it's a speculative asset.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#670

Post by rahmansahinler1 » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:07 AM UTC

There is something I'm not sure of about new topics. Bitcoin makes it's value mostly it's aspect of being decentralized. I think new approves does not increase original bitcoin value. Maybe the big guys wants to create another hype loop that will gather people's money.