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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#661

Post by __loam »

quonn wrote: post #329
hypeit wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, when capital coordinates people get worried and rightfully so. There are a lot of non Jewish Zionists, just as there are a lot of Jewish non-Zionists. In our industry, the VCs are overwhelmingly Zionist while the rest of the industry is non-Zionist and it's the Zionists that are getting people fired and blacklisted.

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There are ample articles in reputable publications like the financial times discussing how pro-israel many of the country's business leaders are. Many of these people are going out of their way to blacklist students who have publicly expressed pro-palestinian views from positions at prestigious law firms (and to be fair, some of those comments were very incindiery). But many of them have gone further, threatening universities who don't kick pro-palestinian groups off campus with pulled donations.

Israel also notably has close ties with the American business community, with some calling them "start up nation".

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/11/business/harvard-israel-h...

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#662

Post by ilitirit »

Many of these comments talking about how many pro-this or anti-that news exist are quite baffling. I don't really think that's the point. I think the point is more about the existence of groups with links to private companies and even government(s?) who actively seek to punish people who post views and opinions they don't like. And this is supposedly is in a democracy, not dictatorship, or religious state.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#663

Post by Invictus0 »

IOT_Apprentice wrote: post #596
instaeloq wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your interpretation is wrong. OP stated: "If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views". They're explicitly stating that they believe pro-palestinian views are prioritized.

Prioritized in what exact way? You are fed what you are interested in and like, on TikTok. It is easy to read yourself of topics or content you are uninterested in or dislike.

Make a brand new account and visit TikTok. You will be shown lots of pro Palestinian content

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#664

Post by Thiez »

wolverine876 wrote: post #348
master_crab wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anti-semitism in and of itself is unequivocally wrong. But conflating anti-Israeli views with anti-Semitic views does a disservice to Jews and Palestinians alike.

It's dangerous, tricky terrain. Regardless of your beliefs, anti-Semites benefit. * The anti-Semites are not idiots, mostly; they don't spew anti-Semitism publicly but say what is acceptable, which is to criticize Israel, and obviously anything anti-Israeli helps their cause. * There's an implication whether people like it or not: Israel defines itself as The Jewish State. Also, many people are unware that Judaism is…

These "dangers" exist because Israel intentionally blurs the difference between the Jewish people and Israel so that it can cry antisemitism when there is opposition. Maybe they could just stop playing the antisemitism card, or alternatively stop comitting a horrific genocide, occupation, apartheid, and other crimes. If Israel commits acts that deserve criticism then maybe instead of the rest of the world worrying about whether criticism encourages antisemitism Israel can just improve their behavior.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#665

Post by YZF »

The_Colonel wrote: post #558
A1kmm wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fundamental assumption of the analysis that there are two mutually exclusive groups, 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-Palestine' is flawed. It is possible to simultaneously support the interests of Palestinian and Israeli civilians (and support a peaceful Israel within the 1967 boundaries), while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) and Hamas. I think it is cur…

I think that forcing this dichotomy is part of the deliberate pro-Israel media strategy - if you despise Hamas inhumane acts, then of course you need to be pro-Israel. They want you to focus on Hamas to steer away your attention from what Israel has been doing. (this is also one of the reasons why Hamas has historically been an asset for the Israeli right)

Hamas has been an assset for the Israeli right because it helps prevent a two state solution. The goal is really to weaken the Palestinian Authority. In recent years most of Hamas' crimes were against Palestinians and nobody cared. Forcing this dichotomy today is certainly a strategy but I don't think that was really a strategy pre-Oct 7th. I.e. I don't recall ever Israel trying to justify settler violence against Palestinians in the west bank as being a response to Hamas- wouldn't make any sense.

In some perverse way, the objection to the two state solution forces the one state solution, which is likely the only solution that would ever work. Jews and Arabs living side by side in the same country as equal citizens. Hamas isn't interested in that solution either.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#666

Post by Invictus0 »

rowanseymour wrote: post #536
wk_end wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also the nature of the violence. It's generally acceptable to show shots of bombed-out buildings and the like, or even display injured or dead bodies. The footage we and Israel have from Hamas depicts first-hand murder, rape and torture - all things which are going to violate TOS.

Rape and torture were not featured [1] in the recent propaganda movie Israel screened to select people in the West, so there's no reason to believe such footage exists. 1. https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1729487180630786219

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#667

Post by zozbot234 »

YZF wrote: post #665
The_Colonel wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that forcing this dichotomy is part of the deliberate pro-Israel media strategy - if you despise Hamas inhumane acts, then of course you need to be pro-Israel. They want you to focus on Hamas to steer away your attention from what Israel has been doing. (this is also one of the reasons why Hamas has historically been an asset for the Israeli right)

Hamas has been an assset for the Israeli right because it helps prevent a two state solution. The goal is really to weaken the Palestinian Authority. In recent years most of Hamas' crimes were against Palestinians and nobody cared. Forcing this dichotomy today is certainly a strategy but I don't think that was really a strategy pre-Oct 7th. I.e. I don't recall ever Israel trying to justify settler violence against Pa…

> Jews and Arabs living side by side in the same country as equal citizens.

Except that Israel has Arabs already, living side by side with the Jews there. Palestinians have rejected that.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#668

Post by erokar »

jdross wrote: post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

Might it be because the whole world is actually concerned about the massacre Isreal is now committing on the Palestinian people?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#669

Post by YZF »

zozbot234 wrote: post #667
YZF wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamas has been an assset for the Israeli right because it helps prevent a two state solution. The goal is really to weaken the Palestinian Authority. In recent years most of Hamas' crimes were against Palestinians and nobody cared. Forcing this dichotomy today is certainly a strategy but I don't think that was really a strategy pre-Oct 7th. I.e. I don't recall ever Israel trying to justify settler violence against Pa…

> Jews and Arabs living side by side in the same country as equal citizens. Except that Israel has Arabs already, living side by side with the Jews there. Palestinians have rejected that.

Yes yes. I'm from Israel. I know that story.

Palestinians did not reject a one state solution. Most Israelis don't want that. I.e. annex the West Bank and Gaza and have a single country, let's call it "Israel-Palestine".

I think the Israeli Arabs are a model/proof that it can work. It might need a generation or two to get there.

If you want more radical ideas then if all Palestinian Arabs convert to Judaism we can also solve the problem pretty quickly...

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#670

Post by thomastjeffery »

tim333 wrote: post #648
abusada wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello there, a Palestinian from the west bank here speaking, let me tell you something, our resistance has nothing to do with Israel being a Jewish state, if my brother stole my house and killed my children i will fight him just the same, and you would too and everyone else (I assume). jewish, muslim, christian, vegan.. doesn't matter. Now Hamas does play on the string of religion to get to people, and so does Israel…

I'm not an expert on this but from watching the odd documentary I get the impression that 90%+ of Palestinians think similar to yourself but a minority, maybe 1% are into the hardline islam must defeat the jews type position which Hamas seems to adopt. And then while the others try to live somewhat peacefully the minority unfortunately do October 7 massacre type things which then of course causes retaliation. I'm not…

> I'm not sure how this ends unless they drop that?

I can't imagine the average Palestinian person having the headroom to do anything about those 1%.

Does that mean that Israel should implement whatever response they feel like? That is what we are watching play out, and it's an ugly scene.

What if, alternatively, the average Palestinian person was actually in a position to help? What would that look like?

--

What this really seems to boil down to is that no Palestinian person gets a say about what happens in Palestine, except for that violent 1%. That's a pretty obvious motivator for people to join that 1% group. It's also a motivator that might potentially be eliminated without violence. It seems to me like that would be worth a try.

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