Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

661–670 of 876 posts

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#661

Post by dang »

foobarbecue wrote: post #25
c0l0 wrote: post #5

I feel like I have to repeat this, since so much is at stake here, where it is about the preservation of the web as we know it today, at the peril of having it turned into yet another walled garden: The only way around the dystopia this will lead to is to constantly and relentlessly shame and even harass all those involved in helping create it. The scolding in the issue tracker of that wretched "project" shall flow l…

Is https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/... the best place to shame?

> the best place to shame?

Please don't do this here. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

Edit: I suppose I need to add—no, we're not pro-$MegaCorp or pro-$web-destroying-dystopia. We're just trying to have an internet forum that doesn't suck, and you guys need to make your substantive points without degenerating into mob behavior.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#662

Post by Rapzid »

ascendantlogic wrote: post #638
matkoniecz wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And Mozilla is long past dead. Mozilla is far from healthy but calling it dead is overstating things.

Mozilla is dead as a doornail. Google succeeded where Microsoft did not, they essentially control the entire web now.

Yep, Firefox should have allowed styling their scrollbars. Nobody wants those ugly ass scrollbars in their apps.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#663

Post by JohnFen »

Arch-TK wrote: post #563

I predict that hardware attestation will in 10-30 years become a requirement to maintain an internet connection. Given Microsoft's push to make their OS support hardware attestation as well as Google's push for technologies which use hardware attestation in broader and broader scopes (Android and iOS has supported this for apps for a long time), the technology to make this possible is increasingly becoming widespread…

> I predict that hardware attestation will in 10-30 years become a requirement to maintain an internet connection.

I fear you're right. But if the current trends keep up, I'll have abandoned the internet entirely before that happens.

I mourn for what we have already lost, and we are poised to lose even more.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#664

Post by dang »

jjoonathan wrote: post #49
foobarbecue wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/... the best place to shame?

Yoav Weiss is closing concern threads, calling them "spam." Ben Wiser ( https://benwiser.com ) turned off comments altogether.

Please don't do this here. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

Edit: I suppose I need to add—no, we're not pro-$MegaCorp or pro-$web-destroying-dystopia. We're just trying to have an internet forum that doesn't suck, and you guys need to make your substantive points without degenerating into mob behavior.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#665

Post by jamiek88 »

matkoniecz wrote: post #640
slig wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less than 5% of global usage [1], and no presence whatsoever on mobile. Pretty much dead. [1]: https://radar.cloudflare.com/adoption-and-usage And CF stats doesn't depend on JavaScript.

4% of global browser usage can be described in many ways (defeated, miserable, collapse compared to the past etc) but it definitely is not dead and is one of few developed browsers.

For many years what is now macOS hovered around 3% usage.

The phoenix can rise.

The frozen chicken can not.

Still breathing makes a huge difference.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#666

Post by nequo »

solardev wrote: post #652
matkoniecz wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4% of global browser usage can be described in many ways (defeated, miserable, collapse compared to the past etc) but it definitely is not dead and is one of few developed browsers.

If we're arguing about whether 4% global usage constitutes dead, then yes, it's truly dead and Mozilla is completely irrelevant. Even Microsoft is more important these days (again).

The difference between 0% and 5% is that at 0%, if you want an alternative, you have to write it yourself, but at 5%, the alternative exists. Mozilla is not dead.

If you don’t like what Google is doing, don’t pretend that Firefox does not exist. Do something instead. File bug reports, send patches, donate to those who are working on Firefox and countering Google.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#667

Post by samcat116 »

Can someone explain how its technically impossible to conform to this spec using, for example some desktop linux distro and say firefox? Is there really no OSS way to implement this? Secure boot works today on linux (might not be the default happy path, but that seems fixable). TPM apis are there no?

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#668

Post by dang »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #387
larata_media wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your overall ideal of free access to information but I disagree that harassment is a necessary or even effective option to push against this. I think the harassment puts us in a category of ineffective, bitter malcontents and that’s not what we are. We are capable of going to elsewhere to free and open access to information, and we would be better off spending our energy on positively influencing others…

Every time you see someone abandon an open source project, one of the biggest reasons is people suck and ask too much, harass, etc. Therefore, one of the most efficient ways to kill a dangerous new standard is to endlessly harass anyone who works on it. Sorry, the poor individual can not hide from their responsibility.

Please don't do this here.

More explanation:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36881929

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36881081

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36881034

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#669

Post by pjmlp »

toyg wrote: post #650
izacus wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It didn't happen when Apple did it with Safari (and you all were quiet as a mouse as well, with HN actively defending Apple Safari monopoly with this feature enabled)... so why would NOW be any different?

Apple don't have enough web properties to force this sort of change. Google can turn around tomorrow and say that no browser without WEI can access GMail, GMaps, GSheets, Photos etc; people will have to comply, effectively killing any browser that does not support the feature. This is the problem with the Chromium monoculture. "We", as generic IT people and developers on HN, definitely have a responsibility for not d…

And everyone that ships an Electron app as well.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#670

Post by solardev »

jamiek88 wrote: post #665
matkoniecz wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4% of global browser usage can be described in many ways (defeated, miserable, collapse compared to the past etc) but it definitely is not dead and is one of few developed browsers.

For many years what is now macOS hovered around 3% usage. The phoenix can rise. The frozen chicken can not. Still breathing makes a huge difference.

Maybe if they replaced top Mozilla leadership. Apple had to reinvent itself back into relevance. Mozilla refuses to, and just keeps stagnating in a cesspool of rot and nostalgia. They're less a browser maker these days and more an ineffective think tank. I think Google keeps them around just as a "useful fool" so they can look less like a monopoly...

Probably better for a different org with different leadership to start over. I wouldn't count on Mozilla to miraculously reinvent itself.

Post reply on HN