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GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

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Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#661

Post by wkat4242 »

unnouinceput wrote: post #70
ralph84 wrote: post #11

Somewhat ironic that a company that’s entire existence was based on the idea of giving developers great tools no longer values giving its own developers great tools. Only a matter of time before this new attitude towards developers shows up in the product.

We talk about Microsoft here? In what era M$ was based on such idea? In 80's when Bill&Co. did whatever they could to undermine OS/2, DR-DOS & LaTex? Or in 90's when Bill's lap dogs were threatening OEM manufactures to automatically include DOS and later Windows as default operating system in their systems? Or maybe it was 2000's when Ballmer did everything it could to stop Linux and later a rather spectacular fail t…

I view WSL the same way.

Especially cloud devs prefer running Linux on their machines, or Mac (the latter is a bit more popular in our org). And developers is where the exodus starts. Because they build ecosystems.

The big selling point of WSL for businesses is endpoint management. It's really hard to manage Linux endpoints in particular if you have a mix of distributions. Windows is better at this despite active directory being a horrible mess of legacy crap and modern management not really ready for prime time.

In fact Linux is so bad at it that I see a lot of users wanting it so they can escape company management.

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#662

Post by AndrewVos »

kahrl wrote: post #216
AndrewVos wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I think you’re right.

I think you understood exactly what I meant the first time, but then feigned ignorance in order to be able to virtual signal and say the same tired old line "this is why I don't come here anymore" as you continue to lurk.

I think you are sad and lonely.

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#663

Post by kdtsh »

bsder wrote: post #378
MaKey wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Linux app doesn't even support screen sharing when you're using Wayland. I was forced to try out the browser based variant (meeting link opened the web variant instantly instead of giving me the choice to use the app instead) and can now finally share my screen (even single windows!). Also I can now use backgrounds, which the app didn't support.

> Wayland Don't blame Teams for the fact that Linux can't sort out its Desktop GUI situation.

Linux ‘sorted out’ its display server protocol years ago, it’s Wayland. Fedora has been on Wayland by default since 31. Ubuntu has been on Wayland by default since 21.4. Debian has been on Wayland by default since 11. Distributions that don’t have an implementation of Wayland enabled by default are hold-outs at this point.

It’s somewhat understandable that developers for Microsoft might not be fully across the status of display servers and their respective implementations in Linux, but it’s a reasonable rule of thumb to assume that Wayland is the way to go for any new projects since 2021 at the very latest. If you build your app for X today it’s probably going to be running under XWayland anyway.

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#664

Post by leoedin »

analog31 wrote: post #610
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's telling that Microsoft has to require folks to use Teams. Most people, when they get comfortable with something, are averse to change. Even if the thing they would change to is better than what they have , they still won't want to learn a new thing. Not saying that's the case here. But without real data to lead a decision, people just do what they prefer, rather than what's better. (I use both Slack and Teams…

People love change. Look how Google, Amazon, and social media took the world by storm. And pocket calculators, smart phones, large screen TV's, the list goes on. People like changes that benefit them. On the other hand, probably the #1 user request for enterprise software is: Please don't change anything. This tells you something about the software. Common reasons are: * The last major change broke everything and we…

Don't forget

* The workflow to use your software is so unintuitive I've had to learn it by muscle memory

People don't mind when a nice discoverable UI adds some more features. They don't like it when a horrible poorly thought out one that they had to painfully learn is suddenly different. That button that used to be hidden in the edit menu? Now it's on a ribbon menu which has to be expanded. Good luck hunting!

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#665

Post by creshal »

dgellow wrote: post #402
betaby wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Most of the laptops at my current jobs were 720p till 2023. I work for a huge enterprise (over 5k employees).

Damn, that sucks. What model are they?

Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. all offer current-gen "business" notebooks with 720p or 768p screens, to placate the penny pinching soulless big corporations.

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#666

Post by creshal »

lmm wrote: post #623
evancox100 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think YouTube isn’t profitable? Plenty of ads in it and bringing in something like $15 bln/year in revenue. Don’t know exactly the COGS, etc., but hard to say they aren’t making money. Android is probably a much better example than YouTube.

YouTube was burning money for years. They might actually be making money now with the rise in memberships and superchats (and more aggressive ads), but it took what, ten years to get there?

Youtube was founded 15 years ago, and might, possibly be profitable now… but I still doubt it. Between the eternally escalating storage and bandwidth requirements, political pressure to involve more humans in content moderation keeps rising too.

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#667

Post by Lutger »

generalk wrote: post #421

Regardless of what you think of Teams -- I myself have had nothing but poor experiences over 2.5 years of using it daily -- it's telling that Microsoft has to require folks to use Teams. I'm sure this is just Microsoft unifying everyone on the same comms platform, but seriously, I don't know anyone who chooses Teams. I know non-tech folks who chose Outlook 365 because of familiarity and then end up on Teams because i…

We changed from teams to google meet when we otherwise do everything in 365 just for the video conferencing. Teams was so bad, it was costing us a lot of frustration and time, working mostly remote it seriously impeded our ability to do work.

We still use teams for chat, but it always bogs my mind how broken it is, especially for devs. The last time I used slack for work was maybe 7 years ago, I still miss that. Being forced to move to teams killed any sense of online community in the workplace, biggest example of how tools can actually shape culture.

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#668

Post by vineyardmike »

nortonham wrote: post #642
vineyardmike wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Jitsi is terrible. But it gets points for being open source and self hostable. I appreciate that. For me, it’s Google Meet (best UI, I like the waiting room, etc) Amazon Chime (I like the ringing features, integrated chat) Jitsi (OSS etc) Zoom (It’s ok, yes, but the company is questionable and the UI is so so) Etc Teams (never used tbh, but I used corporate Skype before rebranding and it never worked right)

zoom is a questionable company but somehow Google or Amazon are not.......

Yes. Zoom executives directly working for china to disrupt users calls that were anti-china. They later formally added Chinese-gov related takedowns in their TOS.

Before the pandemic, apple had to remove their Mac app because it was basically a virus.

Google and Amazon aren't perfect, but you can use their video calls without worrying that an executive will dislike the content of your call and mess with you. And they don't use anti-patterns to try and route you from the web app to installing a virus.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/18/technology/zoom-tiananmen...

https://www.wired.com/story/zoom-bug-webcam-hackers/ https://lifehacker.com/remove-zoom-from-your-mac-right-now-1...

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#669

Post by Lutger »

kneebonian wrote: post #588
wkat4242 wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the biggest problem with Teams is the leadership's strategy. They seem to be focusing on adding as many glossy features as quickly as possible. The quality, performance and consistency doesn't seem to be a point of consideration at all. Yet for a user who spends a lot of time in it each day, I really don't care about animated waves on top of my video, or this together mode. I just want it to work and not take…

It's CDD, checklist driven development. When you are competing against another product in the enterprise space the people making the decision probably won't be using what you are selling often but they will look at the list of features, so money spent adding new features is more important and higher prioritized than stability reliability or any other nonfunctional requirement.

This resonates. Microsoft does this with a lot (not all) of their products. Its also my experience here in the Netherlands, especially how Microsoft does sales. Its always management who forces everybody to use these products against their will, especially as they come for free in their 365 package. Nevermind that is a pale imitation of an MVP version of their competitor.

For the decision makers, it doesn't really matter that the consequence is loss of work satisfaction and productivity. That is _their_ problem.

My regret is not finding out about this earlier in my career, in the future tooling will be an important consideration when choosing jobs, and I'll avoid orgs who are in an iron grip by Microsoft like the plague.

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