I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you • Hacker News Board

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#661

Post by beAbU » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 6:00 PM UTC

jrochkind1 wrote: post #561

beAbU wrote: post #338

I've had Minecraft since before the pre-alpha days. I think I had a pirated copy of Alpha late in 2010 and some time in 2011 or shortly thereafter I actually bought the game. I might have easily sunk 1000s of hours into this game. I think I played the ending only once, in Creative Mode, to see what the fuss was about. I never cared for the ending, because to me Minecraft never had an ending. We had a Survival server…

What do you mean by "gaslighting" there? I understand "gaslighting" as "manipulating someone so as to make them question their own reality." Is that what you mean, or something else?

I might be using the term incorrectly, I realize that.

The author's behaviour is that of the spouse that's "totally not mad, honey" but you still feel uneasy afterwards.

I'm not sure what term to use to describe this behaviour. English is not my native language.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#662

Post by NhanH » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 6:00 PM UTC

JulianPGough wrote: post #646

Hi all. I'm Julian, the guy who wrote the ending to Minecraft, and that Substack piece. I've read a fair few of your comments. (Not all; blimey, 600? You've crowdsourced a book!) Very interesting and enjoyable experience. Almost all the ones I've read are parsing the legalities; engaging with the law around copyright, rights agreements, etc. Arguing about legal specifics. Almost none of them engage with the artistic…

I think you (and some commenters) are missing the reason on HN’s fixation on the legal and corporate issue, so I should spell it out: the reason people in corporate follow those legal methods is to NOT screwing everyone. Emotion is good and all, but does not work at scale of more than half a dozen people. You can’t decide the best course of action that will benefit everyone based on your judgment of their emotions. And actually in this case it is even simpler: everyone at Mojang will be happy with the buyout, so the singular focus at the time would be to release the game (in first part), or to get bought by Microsoft.

Even if Carl and Notch considered you their best friend, at the point of the Microsoft buyout, they will still have to a) Keep their mouth shut and can’t tell you about that (yes, it was leaked, but they might still can’t talk about it) and b) force you to sign the paperwork. The alternative is risk letting the deal falling through, hurting everyone involved, owners or employees.

It’s not heartless or emotional-less, just purely ultilitarian. Anyone who has to deal with management of some capacity will have to think of the same sort. Carl might have thought a lot about emotion and friendship, but it’s not just yours. He has to make sure everyone’s are considered too. It just happened your priority is different

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#663

Post by anagram666 » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 6:08 PM UTC

JulianPGough wrote: post #646

Hi all. I'm Julian, the guy who wrote the ending to Minecraft, and that Substack piece. I've read a fair few of your comments. (Not all; blimey, 600? You've crowdsourced a book!) Very interesting and enjoyable experience. Almost all the ones I've read are parsing the legalities; engaging with the law around copyright, rights agreements, etc. Arguing about legal specifics. Almost none of them engage with the artistic…

I am happy you are in a better head space. The fact you can enjoy reading internet comments is a great testament to that!

The zeitgeist of our times is categorization, valuation, discrimination... This is good or bad, valid or invalid. There is very little space for the flaws of the real world. To divide the world so clearly, violence is necessary. Be the clinical wording of the surgeon or the hate of the mob...

There is so much hate on the internet; Remember it is not personal, they do not know you.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#664

Post by plopperdoo » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 6:09 PM UTC

dccoolgai wrote: post #658

JulianPGough wrote: post #646

Hi all. I'm Julian, the guy who wrote the ending to Minecraft, and that Substack piece. I've read a fair few of your comments. (Not all; blimey, 600? You've crowdsourced a book!) Very interesting and enjoyable experience. Almost all the ones I've read are parsing the legalities; engaging with the law around copyright, rights agreements, etc. Arguing about legal specifics. Almost none of them engage with the artistic…

Your piece addresses what you claim to be a basic "unfairness": You (if it's really you) say someone "didn't treat me as a friend". Most of the comments are reflecting on whether it really was or wasn't unfair. So I'd say it's also an interesting worldview that you make a claim about fairness and then dismissed any conversation about fairness (the topic _you brought up_) with a glib statement asserting that anyone wh…

The Hacker News comment fills in a missing piece for me: why did Carl lose his shit on him? That part was just a one sided story so there were gaps for me.

Seeing how he speaks to a new community made it all crystal clear. I’ve encountered that type of demeanor quite often, which is burying nonetheless-obvious and heaping contempt under “it was particularly enjoyable” smarm and a fake smile. Even if unintended, wow, what a way to undermine the intended emotional payload of the story by demonstrating unreliable narration and self-awareness, as well as some far less favorable aspects of personality and empathy.

I feel for the guy, that situation is tough, but it’s making more sense now that I’m waking up to act 2 (particularly Mojang’s willingness to let it lie, another question I had).

Julian, if you read this, I don’t know that your words are having the effect you’re hoping for, and obviously pushing for. I think you’re unconsciously making the case that distance from you was probably healthy for all involved. I see a lot of discussion about whether HN is emotionally intelligent, and it might be true that folks here tend to focus on legalisms (it is, after all, primarily engineers), but take it from an outsider here: HN is on the mark in this case and I’d be more suspicious of Reddit’s take if I were you.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#665

Post by hardwaregeek » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 6:12 PM UTC

This reminds me of the scene in Bojack Horseman, where Bojack attempts to apologize to his former friend Herb, who he screwed over by not supporting when Herb was fired. Herb basically says that he didn't care about the job or the money, he did alright in the end. What he needed was a friend, and Bojack wasn't there. The point of this is not the money or the legal issues. The point was that Notch treated this guy as a friend right up to when it became about business. And it makes me a little sad to see people act as if the author is at fault for feeling hurt.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#666

Post by RajT88 » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 6:13 PM UTC

naet wrote: post #85

I kinda feel like this guy is overstating his contribution to Minecraft. It's nice to have an end screen message, but that isn't what drove the value of the game and could have easily been replaced by something else. Rule #1 of getting paid for your work is don't do a bunch of work without signing a contract first. Even if you're an artist. I highly doubt he could have released that poem on his own and turned it into…

20k does indeed seem fair - for the value of Minecraft at that moment in time.

And that's the kicker - his agent could have negotiated 100k, which would have been more than fair for that moment in time. But still be wayyy underpaid for eventually what the game would sell for.

But of course, it's not about money. I understand his point - and I wish I could find it now, but I can't, so I'll just describe it.

I saw some meme a while back with a kid sitting next to and hugging a giant frog. The text read, "Beware, the people you love don't always love you back". The second panel showed the frog swallowing the child. I've certainly had these sort of one-sided friendships, and periodically reflect on them. It sucks. It's probably worse if you're a very emotionally deep person (which writers and other artists frequently are), but I still understood well what he was talking about.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#667

Post by TheCapn » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 6:17 PM UTC

dsabanin wrote: post #566

sipjca wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah he is claiming people have it tattooed. Reading the story shows you one such image. A Google search also validates the claim.

To be fair, some people make tattoos with all kinds of silly things, the bar is pretty low. One can argue that whatever the ending text was, someone would make a tattoo with it eventually.

So then would the artist who created that ending not be entitled to the recognition they deserve for their part in it? If not this author, then another? Would the same story, but from another person change anything?

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#668

Post by sbst32 » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 6:22 PM UTC

beAbU wrote: post #657

sbst32 wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am stunned (pardon my sarcasm) that you're implying he demands something. The whole point of his long story was to say that he did not want to demand anything (even though he clearly had his opportunities). You're reading it wrong if you see "greedy" there. And regarding "stunned this is on HN" - clearly this content is quite interesting/relevant to the HN audience as you can see by the number of comments.

Who spends 12k words to say "I'm not asking for anything"? This is clearly passive aggressive gaslighting behaviour: "I'm really not mad or upset that I only got 20k. Really you guys. I see Notch in his nice house, how he doled out piles of cash to everyone and skipped me and it's fine because I'm happy for them. Really! I thought we were friends and clearly we are not but thats fine because I took some shrooms and n…

This is his way of storytelling. This is his introspection. The poem in question was also long - too long for some people but it worked for others.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#669

Post by tbodt » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 6:24 PM UTC

JulianPGough wrote: post #646

Hi all. I'm Julian, the guy who wrote the ending to Minecraft, and that Substack piece. I've read a fair few of your comments. (Not all; blimey, 600? You've crowdsourced a book!) Very interesting and enjoyable experience. Almost all the ones I've read are parsing the legalities; engaging with the law around copyright, rights agreements, etc. Arguing about legal specifics. Almost none of them engage with the artistic…

In the Hacker News language game I think this comment delivered without sarcasm would be much better received.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#670

Post by jerbearito » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 6:26 PM UTC

It seems the author defers to others, doesn’t communicate his own needs/desires, then gets upset when he doesn’t get what he wants. He explains it away by saying he was focused more on the art than the money — but clearly he’s focusing on the money a lot.

It might be difficult to honestly confront your difficulties with confrontation/communication, but I imagine it’s more worthwhile than stewing, rationalizing, etc.