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U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

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Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#661

Post by ryzvonusef »

deadbunny wrote: post #453
StillBored wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, this is because the people writting GUI's these days are mostly incompetent, or hamstrung by "web" technologies. Early GUI's didn't have the problem you describe because they were designed as discovery mechanisms to the underlying function. AKA, the idea was that after clicking File->Save a dozen times you would remember the keyboard accelerators displayed on the right hand side of the menu. Or if nothing else,…

In my experience the rise of GUIs over TUIs they lost the command buffering. If you knew what you were doing with a well designed TUI you could hit a sequence of keys that would be buffered and "replayed" as the next screen(s) loaded. Hit a sequence of commands in a GUI and they'll just get lost after the first one as the app/website loads.

Excuse me, what is TUI?

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#662

Post by WalterBright »

shadowgovt wrote: post #518
WalterBright wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can believe the government is efficient if you like. The fact remains that there's been massive growth in government, and that is going to be paid for out of the economy.

Maybe I've just spent too many years in government contracting, but when I hear that a government program is growing, I hear economic stimulus, not pulling something out of the economy.

I wonder why those countries that "stimulate" their economies tend to do poorly.

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#663

Post by dzhiurgis »

bombcar wrote: post #416
toss1 wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds about right For those that seemed to transfer successfully, I noted that at Mayo Clinic, the doctors use live dictation software and dictate at least some of their notes into the system while the patient is present near the end. This immediate review sometimes brings up a few new questions (from either Dr or patient), and a bit more notetaking. So, it looks like a very efficient system. They also have no appar…

Dictating while the patient is there is brilliant, because it double-checks both the doctor and the patient's understanding of what happened.

Forms give you validation errors or warnings instantly tho

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#664

Post by WalterBright »

komali2 wrote: post #604
WalterBright wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can believe the government is efficient if you like. The fact remains that there's been massive growth in government, and that is going to be paid for out of the economy.

Regardless of personal beliefs, there's the other issues here. First, what does "massive growth in government" even mean? Do you mean in government meddling in people's personal lives, like restricting bodily autonomy for women or banning books? Yes, I agree. Do you mean in government spending? Sure, agreed, the numbers agree. But you seems to be referring to some other kinda vaguely defined concept of like... govern…

First, what does "massive growth in government" even mean?

1. the amount of money it spends

2. the amount of interference in the workings of the marketplace, usually called "unfunded mandates" where they put burdens on businesses

> I feel like you're hinting at some kind of alternative that I can't possibly guess at.

A much more limited government.

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#665

Post by alephu5 »

ryzvonusef wrote: post #661
deadbunny wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience the rise of GUIs over TUIs they lost the command buffering. If you knew what you were doing with a well designed TUI you could hit a sequence of keys that would be buffered and "replayed" as the next screen(s) loaded. Hit a sequence of commands in a GUI and they'll just get lost after the first one as the app/website loads.

Excuse me, what is TUI?

Terminal user interface

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#666

Post by Der_Einzige »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #457
AnthonBerg wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many, many scientists who are attempting to warn us that isn’t nothing. The literature is piling up. Paper: Immunological dysfunction persists for 8 months following initial mild-to-moderate SARS-CoV-2 infection – https://doi.org/10.1038/s41590-021-01113-x Paper: “Excess risk for acute myocardial infarction mortality during the COVID-19 pandemic” — https://doi.org/10.1002/jmv.28187 Paper: “p53/NF-kB Balance…

All of these seem to say the risks of complications are extremely rare? I mean it's endemic at this point so it's really really shitty if you are one of the unlucky few but what can we even do? > We can clean this crap out of the air. Nobody has to breathe in SARS-CoV-2. ?? What do you even mean. Maybe if the vaccine prevented spreading the virus we could but until we develop that I don't see how that is possible.

A national program to make every indoor space have proper ventilation / air purification.

It's shocking how much this can help with other things e.g. asthma or allergies.

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#667

Post by f1refly »

jimlongton wrote: post #58
throwaway22032 wrote: post #27

I'm pretty sure I know why... The working environment changed. Bit by bit I moved from an environment with gentleman's agreements and so on towards something in which everything was codified, safetyism became rampant, etc. In the UK over the past few years I went from going into a nice office in a number of beautiful old buildings, getting my stuff done with cameraderie, having lunch together and playing board games,…

> towards something in which everything was codified, safetyism became rampant Those "gentleman's agreements" were not that great if you happened to be a woman, gay or any other minority. The upsides to HR, employment regulation and so on has been making the office a far better place to work for a lot of people. While I agree that there are rampant problems in a lot of sectors, from low skilled to medical, there have…

> Those "gentleman's agreements" were not that great if you happened to be a woman, gay or any other minority.

You just say that like it's a fact, but... why would that be the case?

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#668

Post by robertlagrant »

yurishimo wrote: post #393
robertlagrant wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. All the systems are set up this way. The problem is: how do you allow departments to retain their fiefdoms in a world of centralised data? The answer is to spend a fortune on management consulting.

Or nationalize the documentation infrastructure. This is not a problem in the developed world. i give my doctor my tax ID and they can see my entire patient history, all of my medication, and relevant notes from other providers.

The UK has the NHS and does not have this in the slightest : - )

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#669

Post by secretsatan »

StillBored wrote: post #242
conductr wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think productivity was ever the goal of this software. It was to have a record that is standard, digital, transferable, etc. Doctors fought it as long as they could because they knew what it meant for them. I remember pretty early demos in early/mid 2000s when I was doing some clinical grunt work in college. I had written some software to make my department’s life easier so I was offered up as the hospital’s…

IMHO, this is because the people writting GUI's these days are mostly incompetent, or hamstrung by "web" technologies. Early GUI's didn't have the problem you describe because they were designed as discovery mechanisms to the underlying function. AKA, the idea was that after clicking File->Save a dozen times you would remember the keyboard accelerators displayed on the right hand side of the menu. Or if nothing else,…

Having worked on enterprise systems, it's not that the developers are always incompetent, it's more that everything is top down designed by committee. Nothing can be harmonized as everyone wants their workflow in there, each one slightly different, there's political infighting, jobsworths, people scared to lose their jobs, all under a strict budget and deadlines to meet.

No one knows what they really want till the software starts getting written and someone finds out they can't do their job, then come change requests (made a lot of money off of them). You kind of just get numb to it all.

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#670

Post by kkfx »

IMVHO the reason is simple: we all use IT stuff to do pretty anything. The original IT was *information* technology in the sense of tools to manage information. Then they involve for business purposes into crap try mimicking old paper-based tools offering their limits AND NOT their advantage but allowing those who sell crapware to profit.

The current involution is even deeper: most people nowadays own really nothing in IT terms since they live on someone else computers at someone else rules.

IF we came back to classic desktops, with their document UI, their end-user programming concepts AND classic HUMAN networking and organization in a far less near-flat pyramid than productivity will skyrocket.

Oh in other philosophical terms: free people are FAR more productive than slaves, since the modern world is more and more based on slavery...

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