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The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

community.frame.work

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Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#661

Post by arc-in-space »

bpye wrote: post #580
oblio wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just make the US keyboard version available everywhere and worry about local keyboards later, when people ask for them. Your audience is probably 90% devs and sysadmins, who most definitely can at least handle en_us.

Shipping a US keyboard in Europe seems like an odd choice since most European keyboard layouts are ISO, not ANSI. I could see a blank keyboard working, or an ISO US keyboard maybe, but that is an uncommon layout that I don't think I've ever actually seen before?

Does this even matter? The point is that if one is fine with the US/ANSI keyboard, they should be allowed to buy it. To wit, I'm european and despise the ISO keyboards, and have never been forced to use one, so it's not like they're ubiquitous.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#662

Post by sennight »

benevol wrote: post #641
emiller88 wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI, we've added support for the framework to nixos-hardware. I appreciate any feedback or improvements anyone has! https://github.com/NixOS/nixos-hardware/blob/master/framewor...

Will you guys ever produce a "wide screen" version of your laptop? If so, you have another customer.

Obviously manufacturers haven't been eradicating useful screen ratios for no reason, I've just never seen anyone publicly admit to being the cause. Would you also like to take the blame for glossy screens, chicklet keyboards, and non-replaceable batteries?

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#663

Post by arinlen »

cowtools wrote: post #538
dntrkv wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually what the term "retina" means (in Apple marketing lingo). It's the required pixel density, at different viewing distances, where you no longer see the pixels. Retina PPI for Macbooks is different compared to iPhones.

Sure, but the threshold between "Retina" vs Non-"Retina" is somewhat arbitrarily decided by Apple, and it's also a registered trademark that only Apple owns. It's like arguing whether or not macbooks are "ultrabooks". Choosing to discuss using these terms is ultimately just allowing these companies to arbitrarily control discussions. I think we should try to resist corporate capture of language when possible. Conside…

> Looking at apple's website, their MacBook Air (which I assume is their main model?) has a "retina" resolution of 2560x1600 with a 13.3' display, whereas the framework has a resolution of 2256x1504 with a 13.5' display. So they are about the same, except that one is marketed as "Retina" and one is not.

From your claim, the MacBook Air has simultaneously a smaller display and a significanly higher pixel count: over 20% more pixels than Framework's display in a smaller area.

You might try to argue that the difference is not meaningful or important to you personaly, but they are far from "being the same".

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#664

Post by mcv »

torginus wrote: post #403
victor9000 wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few weeks ago I spilled an entire cup of sugary espresso on my framework laptop which completely ruined my keyboard by making it a sticky mess. You know what I did? I ordered a replacement keyboard kit for $99, installed it in ~5 minutes, and I haven't thought about it since. Some other part will fail in the future, or I'll spill another cup of coffee, and when that happens all I need to worry about is swapping out…

Can't you do the same thing with a Thinkpad?

When I spilled a mug of tea on my Thinkpad, I didn't have to replace anything.

Of course there are plenty of laptops that have tons of great features, including repairability, though many laptops have been getting less repairable in recent years (even Thinkpads), so a laptop that makes this a reliable core feature, especially if it even means you can swap ports around, apparently, is absolutely interesting.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#665

Post by str34m »

lukeschlather wrote: post #555
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pop OS on a Dell XPS is giving me good battery life. If you already have your machine and files are backed up, worth a shot.

"Good battery life" is not my measure of good power management. I can leave my windows laptop sitting out, it will sensibly turn off the screen and eventually hibernate, I don't need to worry about it. A Linux laptop will need babying when it's not plugged in.

Gnome has power management features like that, didn't even enable them. It's the most installed DE I think, so your characterization of Linux is pretty off.

I like Gnome and its newest incarnation Gnome 40, but at least on Nixos it has some issues so I often rebuild to an i3-based environment instead.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#666

Post by Sebb767 »

f1refly wrote: post #639
Sebb767 wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that one of their stated targets is sustainability, this sounds like Jevons paradox [0]. This might be averted a bit, though, if you reuse the old mainboards for things like a homeserver. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

You can also sell them to people who don't need the latest and greatest and are happy to buy a still more than adequate used machine part

They'd still need a framework chassis, so this market is probably a tad smaller (either they are late upgraders or something broke). But yes, this works, too.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#667

Post by bodge5000 »

doyougnu wrote: post #340

I recently bought a framework laptop for a daily driver when I'm not on my desktop. For context I was running NixOS on an old 2014 macbook air, and I work on the glasgow haskell compiler in my day job so I do a lot of CPU heavy tasks. I've got to say, as long as these things are being produced I'll never go back. They are just too good and I cannot recommend them highly enough. One of the things that didn't occur to…

Its a shame they don't have the option of AMD processors, the rdna2 igpu's included in the new ones would be more than sufficient for me, whereas my understanding is that the intel igpu's leave a lot to be desired.

As game dev is one of the main things I do with a personal PC, sadly this means Im somewhat tied down to having a decent gpu. RDNA2 would be perfect for me, powerful enough to dev on and weak enough to test on (so I dont need a seperate low-spec machine for testing low-end performance).

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#668

Post by ohthehugemanate »

pjlegato wrote: post #607
nrp wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I replied to one of your other comments, but you should follow the latest version of the Ubuntu 22.04 guide, setting nvme.noacpi=1, with which we see around 0.8%/hour in s0ix: https://guides.frame.work/c/Framework_Laptop#Section_How-to

This is why most people just buy a MacBook: it should not be necessary for the user to read, do, or configure _anything_ to make suspend mode work properly and not drain 30% of your battery overnight.

To be fair, do macbooks and frameworks really share a target market? Apple defines itself by "do it the Apple way and everything just works." Framework is all about "customize it your way and it works." The Venn diagram in my head doesn't have a lot of overlap.

If you want the Mac experience on a Linux device, perhaps you'd be happier with an ubuntu preinstalled Dell or Thinkpad. If you do things the ubuntu way, I'd say the Apple "just works" guarantee applies.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#669

Post by ohthehugemanate »

grumpyprole wrote: post #640
com2kid wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My MacBook hasn't been suspending itself properly for ages. Love it when my bluetooth headset decides to connect to my MacBook that's been closed and unplugged for 3 hours. Not that Windows is any better.

My work-issued X1 Carbon with Windows 10 came with busted sleep out of the box. So yes, Windows is no better.

Fucking "connected standby" is the worst thing to happen to ACPI since ACPI. In every OS it's a battery draining backpack heater that provides features nobody wants. In every OS you'd better hope the firmware still supports hybrid suspend or suspend-to-hibernate.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#670

Post by ahartmetz »

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #653
nikodunk wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed! Got one from work, and it's a beast on Fedora 36 with the 11th gen. Even the discrete-ish Iris Xe graphics are surprisingly fast. So cool that we'll actually be able to update the innards in a few years as necessary to keep it feeling fresh. Edit: A small but nice design feature is the light that comes on to imply whether the usb-c port is charging properly. Coming from a mac that removed this feature when us…

>Even the discrete-ish Iris Xe graphics are surprisingly fast. So cool that we'll actually be able to update the innards in a few years as necessary to keep it feeling fresh. Isn't Intel graphics always been the best bet for Linux due to their excellent driver support? I'm excited for their discrete GPUs just for the sake of proper Linux support. I have an 15W haswell machine in the corner decoding & encoding multipl…

Intel GPUs have been the best bet for Linux laptops for a long time (over 10 years), but for the last two or three, AMD has been just as good. Just avoid dual GPU laptops ("Optimus" or whatever), it's very problematic on Linux and somewhat problematic even on Windows.
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