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Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

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Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#661

Post by BeetleB »

cogman10 wrote: post #479
14 wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a Canadian stand point you American nurses are already highly paid. My brother works in the US and was recently thinking of coming back to work closer to where he grew up. The best deal he could get here was $20usd less then what he makes there. So on top of making $20 more then a nurse here he is also making it in USD. He is making huge amounts of cash as a nurse down there. How much more do nurses need?

> How much more do nurses need? What you need to realize is that nursing salaries in the US are NOT uniform. From what I've seen in past discussions about it is they range anywhere from $20/hr -> $100k/year. The $100k/year are usually achieved only in cities and generally only by travel nurses. The majority of nurses, that I've seen, are clocking in at 50->60k yearly salary. Sort of like saying "Oh, that google dev m…

> The $100k/year are usually achieved only in cities and generally only by travel nurses.

While $100K/year is not the norm throughout the country, it is normal in my city (non-SV). Travel nurses made a lot more during COVID.

From my conversations, pay is not the reason they are considering leaving. Working conditions are.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#662

Post by conductr »

callmeal wrote: post #460
14 wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a Canadian stand point you American nurses are already highly paid. My brother works in the US and was recently thinking of coming back to work closer to where he grew up. The best deal he could get here was $20usd less then what he makes there. So on top of making $20 more then a nurse here he is also making it in USD. He is making huge amounts of cash as a nurse down there. How much more do nurses need?

>How much more do nurses need? Something something freemarket no longer applies when it comes to paying peons?

The nursing labor market is so fluid, so much turnover, it operates much more like a commodity exchange where prices are concerned. This doesn't apply to people to refuse to change employers so incentivizes short term rate chasing

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#663

Post by clumsysmurf »

vonnik wrote: post #549
mfer wrote: post #46

I've spent a fair amount of time talking with nurses about the problems. I'm related to a bunch of people who are nurses across disciplines (ER, ICU, med/surg, etc). It's been enlightening hearing them talk about the problems... 1. Many new nurses make the same or more and long time nurses. It's frustrating when the nurse in charge with the most experience is making less than new nurses. Some hospitals are even tryin…

I work at a startup* trying to tackle nurse burnout, and two of my family members are nurses. Here are a few things I've learned: - Nurses were getting burned out before the pandemic, and the US has a nursing shortage that's been going on for about 90 years (it started with an infrastructure buildout in the 1930s).* So it's a secular problem, with chronic as well as acute causal factors. - There is a ladder of nursin…

> Many facilities are run entirely on foreign staff (the H2-B visa allows that). And many nurses are imported from the Philippines.

I'm curious what the consequences of this are, how does this impact the profession in the US?

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#664

Post by robonerd »

conductr wrote: post #653
robonerd wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Capacity is the problem Capacity is generally limited by staffing, not space or actual beds. When hospitals report how many "beds" they have available, they're generally not talking about the furniture.

They are absolutely talking about actual physical beds. The bed is licensed by the state and inspected by a regulator and is an indication of how many patients can stay in the hospital. As as been shown these years, they can and will pay what is needed, finding qualified people is the hardest part.

If a hospital has 200 beds but only enough nurses to staff 100 of them, they have "100 beds".

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#665

Post by BeetleB »

cogman10 wrote: post #416
mfer wrote: post #46

I've spent a fair amount of time talking with nurses about the problems. I'm related to a bunch of people who are nurses across disciplines (ER, ICU, med/surg, etc). It's been enlightening hearing them talk about the problems... 1. Many new nurses make the same or more and long time nurses. It's frustrating when the nurse in charge with the most experience is making less than new nurses. Some hospitals are even tryin…

The one I think you are missing is that nurses are and have been overworked for a WHILE now. (that's what I get from /r/nursing) Hospitals have made sure they hire JUST ENOUGH nurses to cover shifts and no more. With covid hitting, this blew out the number of nurses needed resulting in a lot of "I know you've already worked 60 hours, but can you do another 20? we are short!". Rather than hiring permanent people or up…

> Rather than hiring permanent people or upping salary, Hospitals have instead elected to just use travel nurses and an extreme premium so as to avoid any salary increases.

In case people want an idea of what travel nurses made during COVID...

https://khn.org/news/highly-paid-traveling-nurses-fill-staff...

> In April, she packed her bags for a two-month contract in then-COVID hot spot New Jersey, as part of what she called a “mass exodus” of nurses leaving the suburban Denver hospital to become traveling nurses. Her new pay? About $5,200 a week, and with a contract that required adequate protective gear.

> Months later, the offerings — and the stakes — are even higher for nurses willing to move. In Sioux Falls, South Dakota, nurses can make more than $6,200 a week. A recent posting for a job in Fargo, North Dakota, offered more than $8,000 a week. Some can get as much as $10,000.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#666

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

giantg2 wrote: post #425
mikemac wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with all of this, and just to add one thing: liability. Look at the RaDonda Vaught case or the Michelle Heughins case; terrifying to be looking at jail time for a med error. Many nurses are watching these cases more closely and deciding that since staffing isn't getting any better and they won't be protected, it's not worth the risk.

I believe you can even be personally liable for HIPPA security violations as a user or dev of a healthcare system. That seems a bit scary. I agree that regulation persuades people not to do things out of fear of breaking the law. We see this in it's intentional form with regulation of other things such as abortion, guns, etc. Put so many laws in place that risk of accidentally breaking one and receiving an extensive…

> HIPPA

*HIPAA

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#667

Post by eksx »

notch656a wrote: post #531
eksx wrote: post #54

I work in tech with no college degree and about 9 years of programming experience. I make mid 100,000's per year. My S/O has 6 years of Emergency Department experience and a bachelors degree and she made about 65k at our local hospital. I think pay is an enormous factor in this. Her local hospital has nurses with less than 1 year of experience being preceptors to new grads.

How long did it take you to break 100k? Be sure to include those pre-employed years when you didn't even know what 'if' statement meant. A nurse can hit that in 6 years easy through BSN+NP, and that's starting at literally NOTHING. (Alternatively there's a like path for PAs to practice in a mid-level practitioner role that is comparable to NP in those same 6 years)

I spent a bit of time making basic webpages throughout middle/high school using front page. I didn't start taking programming seriously until about early 2013. It took me until about 2019 to hit 100k salary. My girlfriend has 4 years of schooling and 6 years of experience as a nurse. So i guess she has even more total experience than I do.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#668

Post by Kranar »

black_puppydog wrote: post #325
germinalphrase wrote: post #55

I have a close relation that works for one of the oldest pediatric hospitals in the country. It was recently revealed that they will be shuttering almost all pediatric services in the next year because they can 10x their profits by only serving elderly clients. The entire purpose of this organization was to provide pediatric healthcare, and it wasn’t losing money… Sometimes, it feels like we’re min-maxing ourselves t…

Yeah if they're only after profits, why not become a hedge fund?

The majority of hedge funds fail within 3 years, having never reached profitability.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#669

Post by eksx »

narcindin wrote: post #483
eksx wrote: post #54

I work in tech with no college degree and about 9 years of programming experience. I make mid 100,000's per year. My S/O has 6 years of Emergency Department experience and a bachelors degree and she made about 65k at our local hospital. I think pay is an enormous factor in this. Her local hospital has nurses with less than 1 year of experience being preceptors to new grads.

When you say "mid 100,000's" do you mean ~150k or ~500K?

Sorry, meant ~150k!

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#670

Post by landemva »

conductr wrote: post #656
landemva wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes sense to the $250k/year hospital chief bureaucrat (not a medical person) and the Pres. and board accept that the extra contractor pay is just short term.

So are pandemics if you look at it that way

It was great for revenue. Hospitals got paid for using Remdesivir, which has no approved medical use anywhere worldwide and had a test on Ebola virus patients halted because it was killing faster than the Ebola virus. https://www.cms.gov/medicare/covid-19/new-covid-19-treatment...

' October 22, 2020, the FDA approved remdesivir (Veklury) for the treatment of COVID-19 for adults and certain pediatric patients requiring hospitalization '

That stuff is lethal. https://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotech/gilead-mulls-repositio...

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