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On anti-crypto toxicity

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Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#661

Post by idiotsecant »

throwaway82652 wrote: post #609
idiotsecant wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they're all built on the idea of creating a fake, unregulated private money out of nothing and then getting people to pay increasing prices for it. As opposed to our current financial system which is built on the idea of creating real (except when we reeeeally want some extra money, in which case we just make some more), regulated (unless your regulated activity is conducted by an entity that is sufficiently rich or…

>As opposed to our current financial system No that's not what I was saying and this is one of the most terrible things about any cryptocurrency discussion. People can't seem to avoid viewing it as something "opposed" to any current financial system, when that's not true. Cryptocurrency at best is the same as the current financial system and that's a huge stretch if you can somehow avoid all the negative externalitie…

Sorry, if we're speculating about alternative financial systems comparing to the existing one is a pretty natural direction to go.

As for your next point, I'm not sure in what sense our current currency is backed by real human activity in a way that crypto is not. Currency is backed by bullets, bombs, and bayonets ( and sometimes softly spoken implications of the aforementioned alliteration). I guess that's a sort of human activity.

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#662

Post by moistly »

oliwarner wrote: post #572
rvz wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you are downvoted since here on HN, a bad egg soils the bunch. The logic with them is as follows with an example of a fallacy with cars and the environment: 'The majority of cars worldwide are not electric. They are all petrol and diesel cars. That means that ALL cars are bad for the environment and that will not change and thus should be all banned.' Not all cryptocurrency projects are scams, just like…

> I'll tell you that both extremes are incorrect. Okay, I'll bite. What's incorrect at the anti extreme? In other words, what crypto-currency isn't a) burning down our planet and b) disproportionately rewarding early adopters?

[crickets]

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#663

Post by rglullis »

theamk wrote: post #660
rglullis wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. To this day if you work with marijuana dispensary you will be denied of any payment processor. Sex workers are denied credit card applications, even where prostitution is legal. There is also "not exactly blocked but so many hoops to jump that is practically as it doesn't exist" markets: try being a consultant working from South America without getting ripped off in transfer/exchange fees and ask them how many w…

So, those South America consultants, why are they not using crypto right now? The tech to transfer money via crypto has been around for a long time. Could it be that crypto has a number of practical problems, so unless you are a crypto enthusiast or wanting to ~~steal~~ raise some money, traditional methods are more available?

> So, those South America consultants, why are they not using crypto right now?

Because the people on the other side of the transaction are saying "why can't I just PayPal you? Oh, it costs 8% more? Not a problem, I'd rather pay more than having to learn how to deal with crypto or worry about the tax implications from it."

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#664

Post by rglullis »

theamk wrote: post #659
rglullis wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are basically saying "these GNU people only produce things that are interesting for people into software stuff. Don't give me a C compiler, give me Visicalc." It's not because this is not "real-life" enough for you that it means that it is not worthy of being done.

Um, no -- the goal of GNU was to provide free software, so the analogy would be: "These GNU people only produce things for their weird philosophy. I don't care about freedom, give me software I can use." And guess what? In just 4 years since GNU started, they had "assembler, an almost finished portable optimizing C compiler (GCC), an editor (GNU Emacs), and various Unix utilities (such as ls, grep, awk, make and ld)"…

I am pretty sure that Ethereum got their VM, Solidity and plenty of libraries to support the development of smart contracts in (much) less than 4 years.

> so what are those?

Make up your damn mind! What counts as "useful" for you, GCC or Google Maps?

My guess is that you don't really care. You just want to take whatever answer you get and spin it in a way that pleases your biases and can score you some internet points.

So please quit wasting my time and go find something better to do with your life. Come back when you have done something that actually matters to people.

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#665

Post by landemva »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #641
G3rn0ti wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, all redistributive social security systems have a strong pyramid like scheme inherent to them. Take the German retirement funds which - AFAIK — works similarly to „social security“ in the US: Every employee in Germany is required to pay a share of about 20% of their income (1) into the retirement „fund“ — which isn’t one really as the money is not invested to gain interest but instead is immediately payed out t…

OK, so redistributive pension systems are pyramid schemes… I’ll just note that this is a highly debatable interpretation of such systems. Now if we think about it for a moment: social security need money for 3 major things: unemployment, retirement, and health care. At any given point in time, you can divide the population in 2 categories: those who are currently working, and those who are not. And those who are curr…

>>> social security need money for 3 major things: unemployment, retirement, and health care ...

In USA, social security and health care are different issues. SS can be patched up. Health care is on course to consume the entire federal budget.

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#666

Post by cinntaile »

Jordrok wrote: post #650
cinntaile wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unclear to me how ASICs used for mining are weapons.

I suppose you could call them weapons of environmental destruction.

I suppose you could call everything produced by man weapons of environmental destruction, but that doesn't make it very useful.

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#667

Post by antifa »

MezzoDelCammin wrote: post #275
Capira wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is a groundbreaking invention. All the "cryptos" and NFTs are just scams.

well, same could be said for Facebook. Only now, less than 20y later, we're all scrolling through endless feeds and digging comment section trenches of the latest culture wars

Facebook is bad but unlike NFT it's utility exists.

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#668

Post by antifa »

smeea wrote: post #452
Traster wrote: post #46

I think toxicity from the anti-crypto crowd is basically inevitable at this point. It has been a decade of dumb claims and ridiculous assertions from the pro-crypto crowd. None of their claims have materially panned out. There's some promise in some places - mainly in the most nerdy corners of ETH, but it's still only promises. Meanwhile, this long protracted failure has been accompanied by a massive increase in stup…

BTC was the only way I was able to pay for hosting/domain for my non-commercial pet-project (~1,5 years of almost daily after hours development) after sanctions raised against the country I live in. This is my anecdotal experience (and no, I don't invest in crypto), but that's enough for me to not consider cryptocurrencies "just scum". P.S. Also I pay for VPN with it, because this is also the only way at the moment,…

But OP was criticizing almost everything except BTC and etherium.

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#669

Post by theamk »

rglullis wrote: post #664
theamk wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, no -- the goal of GNU was to provide free software, so the analogy would be: "These GNU people only produce things for their weird philosophy. I don't care about freedom, give me software I can use." And guess what? In just 4 years since GNU started, they had "assembler, an almost finished portable optimizing C compiler (GCC), an editor (GNU Emacs), and various Unix utilities (such as ls, grep, awk, make and ld)"…

I am pretty sure that Ethereum got their VM, Solidity and plenty of libraries to support the development of smart contracts in (much) less than 4 years. > so what are those? Make up your damn mind! What counts as "useful" for you, GCC or Google Maps? My guess is that you don't really care. You just want to take whatever answer you get and spin it in a way that pleases your biases and can score you some internet point…

What's hard in this?

For a project whose target audience is "regular people", like the Web, the goal is the things which matter to people. Example: google maps.

For a project whose target audience is "programmers", like the GNU, the goal is the things which matter to programmers. Example: emacs, GNU make.

What is the target audience of crypto websites?

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#670

Post by rglullis »

theamk wrote: post #669
rglullis wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pretty sure that Ethereum got their VM, Solidity and plenty of libraries to support the development of smart contracts in (much) less than 4 years. > so what are those? Make up your damn mind! What counts as "useful" for you, GCC or Google Maps? My guess is that you don't really care. You just want to take whatever answer you get and spin it in a way that pleases your biases and can score you some internet point…

What's hard in this? For a project whose target audience is "regular people", like the Web, the goal is the things which matter to people. Example: google maps. For a project whose target audience is "programmers", like the GNU, the goal is the things which matter to programmers. Example: emacs, GNU make. What is the target audience of crypto websites?

You are defining the GNU project as something for "programmers", which is simply wrong. The point of GNU is to have a Free/Libre Operating system (beyond the kernel) for everyone.

> What is the target audience of crypto websites?

People that care about self-sovereignty. Anyone that can not /does not/wants not to rely on central authority as their only means to interact with others around the world.

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