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Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

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Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#661

Post by drjasonharrison »

aj7 wrote: post #613
davesque wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course the real tragedy is that we fixate so much on college This is what gets me. The whole concept of college, and especially selective, high profile colleges such as Harvard, MIT, etc., seems antiquated and almost entirely manufactured at this point. It's artificially crafted scarcity designed to create a market and brand. I feel the true, primary function of these institutions is to give the rich and powerfu…

No no no. The thesis topics are in graduate schools are more cutting edge, and the opportunity to interact with real science as an undergraduate are invaluable. I would tend to agree that excelling at a second tier university with a comprehensive program is an acceptable start. It generally gets you to a higher level. Competitiveness is about speed. Anyone can look something up. It’s about knowing things right off th…

Well, Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc relaxed on the vaccination distribution and got hammered.

Also, authoritarians sometimes get the actions right even if they don't understand the science or the math.

And do you remember the great "fogging disinfectant trucks" in China. Completely ineffective show that may have fooled the masses but would have failed to destroy any viral agents.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#662

Post by certifiedrodent »

jacobr1 wrote: post #573
dangle1 wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can relate, and I appreciated the doors the PSAT and SAT opened for me. OTOH, I test higher than my actual abilities in my opinion, and that was a relatively unfair advantage the test gave me.

What does testing higher than one's ability actually mean? I'm guessing either you think the test is an imperfect proxy for a different (more important) skill, or otherwise you have imposter syndrome.

In my case it means performing well under stress, having good time management, and skim reading quickly/effectively. All of these are real things that do matter, but they dramatically boost test scores.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#663

Post by avs733 »

Anon1096 wrote: post #482
cyberpunk wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How the fuck is the primary method of judging student admission to University not a government run service? Well, I mean.. America is experimental capitalism. Why run anything government when it can be for profit and 'the market' will solve any and all issues with it? It turns out 'the market' will skew in favor of making a small amount of people rich over actually improving the lives of anyone, but hey, that's fre…

That's nice and all but the College Board is nonprofit and they administer the SAT.

It’s a multibillion dollar nonprofit who’s ceo makes over a million a year.

Do with that what you will.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#664

Post by lliamander »

selimthegrim wrote: post #619
notservile wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool story bruh. I escaped communism under threat of death. CRT is carefully repackaged Marxist garbage. And I’ll take a stand with other Americans to make sure our children don’t die slaves in America when the time comes.

Can you explain how anybody is talking about enslaving white people?

I think he's saying that the whole society would be slaves. While I did not live under communism, I personally know some people who did and I think they would characterize that existence as a form of slavery.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#665

Post by avs733 »

tonguez wrote: post #508
colinmhayes wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you seriously believe the Fed isn't a government entity? I'm legitimately struggling to understand how you came to such a misguided conclusion.

How can you believe it is? I'm legitimately struggling to understand how you came to such a misguided conclusion.

Because beliefs tend to emerge from ideology as opposed to the other way around. Then those beliefs become the api for interacting with information

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#666

Post by VWWHFSfQ »

rayiner wrote: post #642
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to high school in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and almost all of the top academic students in my class were first or second generation immigrants (mostly Indian) that had no interest in extra-curricular activities like sports, band, choir, or really anything. It's important that people, especially immigrants, can get into these schools based solely on their test scores and not have to do any of the other trivial…

The notion of a “well rounded student” who does music, art, and extra curricular activities, is a legacy of blue blood WASP culture. That is not to say that I think only test scores should matter. But the kinds of extracurriculars colleges value—in particular that they don’t value having a job or working in the farm—smacks of old money ideals.

> The notion of a "well rounded student"

...

> is a legacy of blue blood WASP culture

First of all, I don't know what "blue blood WASP culture" is. Explain that please.

Second, there's nothing wrong with expecting students to participate in extra-curricular activities like music and art as a basis for admission. MIT is still going to evaluate those things.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#667

Post by freedomben »

tomatowurst wrote: post #594
freedomben wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your question would have been a lot better if it was just: > What do you think about the argument that standardized tests are systemically racist?

how is it different? there are people that make that exact argument, after all it isn't some tabloid paper claiming it as such.

> how is it different?

Thanks for asking! IMHO, a couple of ways:

1. Your original asked what GP thinks of people that make the argument. Mine asks about the argument itself. It's subtle but important difference, and to have productive discussion about sensitive topics it's imperative to avoid any sort of personal attacks. Even if one's answer might be "those people are stupid" it doesn't help. By addressing the claim/substance rather than the person, it will likely be a more productive conversation.

2. By omitting your opinion portions, it keeps the conversation more focused. When you introduce "standardized test is the only way to measure somebody on their aptitude for doing well like the LSAT", you move the conversation away from systemic racism and toward a debate about whether there are any other ways to measure aptitude for doing well. These seem to me like completely separate topics/discussion.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#668

Post by mplewis »

lightup wrote: post #576
spoonjim wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asian?

No, but I'm sure some of the kids on his math team will be in the same boat even through they're mainly South Asian and Chinese. Backlash against them too it seems.

You are claiming that the University of Minnesota is systemically discriminating against South Asian and Chinese students? Can you back this claim up in any way?

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#669

Post by muh_gradle »

ashtonkem wrote: post #655
strikelaserclaw wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder why these asian countries aren't doing laps around USA or other western countries if they were learning calculus in pre school.

Probably because high levels of math skill don’t translate to economic success. Analytical thinking is a good skill that math can teach you, but there is more than one path to that. In the context of a college education the ability to write clearly and persuasively is far more an important skill to learn. As someone with a degree in math, I’ve always found the monomaniacal focus on how America is “behind” on math edu…

It's not just math education. It's science as well. I'm bewildered that this is even something that people are even contesting what I wrote in 2022 on Hacker News of all places. The majority of PhDs in the STEMs are done by international students and have been for many years now. It's well known that American K-12 is woefully insufficient. But sure, I guess a-ok. But carry on with the straw man.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#670

Post by muh_gradle »

strikelaserclaw wrote: post #638
muh_gradle wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hard time seeing US standardized testing as "better." All of my Korean peers who have studied for the CSAT or Suneung laugh at how easy the SAT/ACT math section is in comparison. K-12 education in the US is years behind at this point from many Asian countries. The fact that we are debating whether standardized testing for colleges and prestigious high schools (Lowell in SF, Stuyvesant in NYC, etc) should be…

I always wonder why these asian countries aren't doing laps around USA or other western countries if they were learning calculus in pre school.

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