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The end of the nice GTK button

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Re: The end of the nice GTK button

#661
post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think of the iOS podcasts app then? I have no idea of where to press to view details of a podcast, vs to start playing it. On the main page, the black text starts playing a podcast, and the purple text shows details. Further into the app, the purple text will start playing while the black text will view details. While playing, neither the purple nor black text do anything (they act as title/subtitle). Cli…

I never used the podcasts app before but just gave it a try. I can't seem to reproduce what you're describing. On the top-level pages ("Listen Now" and "Browse"), only the purple play button plays the podcast for me, clicking the purple text (the duration of the podcast) does nothing, and everything else opens the detail view for the podcast. Pictures always open detail views. What version of iOS are you on? I'm on 1…

I’m also on 15.3.1. The huge “Up Next” menu (the first thing on the first page) is what I’m describing - perhaps you need to subscribe to some podcasts before you see it.

Clicking the purple durations next to the play button always starts the podcasts playing for me.

Re: The end of the nice GTK button

#662
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The font rasterizer is a massive hack in modern UIs. Subpixel rendering is a serious pain in the ass. When you render text using subpixel rendering, you render the actual vectors at 3x the spatial resolution. But, not simply as if the vectors were 3x wider, because that would look too sharp: it needs to render as if there was 3x as many pixels, which is different. Then there’s compositing. Normal layers can be compos…

> some software have started implementing SDFs for font scaling My "wip/chergert/glyphy" branch of GTK 4 does rendering using https://github.com/behdad/glyphy which uses fields to create encoded arc lists and are uploaded to the GPU in texture atlases. The shaders then use that data to render the glyph at any scale/offset. Some work is still needed to land this in GTK 4, particularly around path simplification (mostl…

Regarding slight hinting... currently GTK4 hints glyphs (distorting glyphs by quantizing vertical positioning) then renders them at fractional vertical positions (resulting in blurry horizontal lines). This is the worst of both worlds, achieving neither the scale-independent rendering of unhinted glyphs with fractional positioning, nor the sharpness of hinted glyphs with integer vertical positions. What is your plan for hinting and positioning?

Re: The end of the nice GTK button

#663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still remember the good old days where keyboards had Function keys and apps would prominently display a F2 next to the save button, an F10 next to quit. Even for computer illiterate people, that made using keyboard shortcuts a bliss. Save was ALWAYS on F2 no matter what you did, so people would put physical stickers on their keyboard to make the F2 button say "Save" on the keycap.

What system was this? I've used every version of Windows (literally), DOS since the 80s, Macs since the 90s, Linux since the 90s, Atari ST, and several different 8-bit micros and I don't recall ever using F2 to save. I do believe your anecdote but it's completely escaped me what platform might have used F2. Also worth noting that keyboards do still have function keys. In fact I use F2 as my `tmux` control prefix. :)

[deleted]

Re: The end of the nice GTK button

#664
post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is trying to paint someone as being stubborn here after they already changed their mind I just pointed it out because as I said, this behaviour is fairly common on the GNOME issue tracker. There are numerous instances but for now, the Inter font issue comes to mind https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/-/issues/2331 > GTK_THEME is mainly a setting for developers, you should probably not be using that Well…

>the Inter font issue comes to mind I don't see anything objectionable there. Pay particular attention to this response: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/-/issues/2331#not... Sadly it's not possible to design a GUI that has correct spacing and stays consistent with every font choice. Variable-width fonts don't function like that, widgets sized to a piece of text will have their layout interfered with when t…

> I have the same problem with some apps and I want you to find a solution but I don't understand what this has to do with GTK.

I didn't say that it was a problem with GTK. I said that it's a problem in the dark version of the Adwaita theme. I disagree with the choice of the background and the foreground color.

> Theming is only a band-aid

It's the only solution that comes to mind, unless there's a One True Theme out there that works for everyone.

> I suggest at minimum turning the contrast down on your display or permanently enabling night shift mode.

I've already enabled night mode which reduces the gamma of the display. Turning down the contrast of the monitor doesn't sound right because there are low contrast, medium contrast, and high contrast themes out there. Fortunately, there are objective criteria to measure the contrast. When using gedit, for example, with the Adwaita dark theme, I got `#EEEEEC` as the foreground color of text and `#303030` as the background color which gives a contrast ratio of 11.36 according to the WCAG 2.0.

https://coolors.co/contrast-checker/eeeeec-303030

In my anecdotal experience, contrast ratios above 7 or 8 when using dark mode often end up causing halation which makes GTK apps unusable or uncomfortable for me for more than a few minutes.

Of course, some people may not have this problem and they might find these choice of colors as perfectly normal which is exactly why theming and user choice is important but it seems to be heavily de-emphasized in the GNOME world and the focus is on finding "perfect" solutions.

> Another option may be to pursue something like a gnome extension

unsupported, generally looked down upon, and called as hacks by the GNOME team, just like GNOME tweak tool and GTK_THEME

> No, the current draft allows changing all colors

Does it allow changing the background color of a window and foreground color of the text in a GTK app and would it be officially supported?

Re: The end of the nice GTK button

#665
post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the Inter font issue comes to mind I don't see anything objectionable there. Pay particular attention to this response: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/-/issues/2331#not... Sadly it's not possible to design a GUI that has correct spacing and stays consistent with every font choice. Variable-width fonts don't function like that, widgets sized to a piece of text will have their layout interfered with when t…

> I have the same problem with some apps and I want you to find a solution but I don't understand what this has to do with GTK. I didn't say that it was a problem with GTK. I said that it's a problem in the dark version of the Adwaita theme. I disagree with the choice of the background and the foreground color. > Theming is only a band-aid It's the only solution that comes to mind, unless there's a One True Theme out…

>I said that it's a problem in the dark version of the Adwaita theme.

I don't understand what this has to do with Adwaita either, as I said this can affect every toolkit and every app and every web site because most of them have their own theme. For example this site we're on now has an IMO awful default theme that strains my eyes, and doesn't have any official support for theming. We can't blame GNOME for that one.

>It's the only solution that comes to mind

Actually I mentioned a few other solutions that could work. Theming is not even a real solution sometimes, for example some closed source apps just don't support theming at all and can't be easily hacked to change the colors. If that happens you're pretty screwed, unless you pursue an alternate solution.

>When using gedit

Just FYI gedit is replaced in GNOME 42 with a new GTK4 text editor that has themes built in: https://blogs.gnome.org/chergert/2021/12/03/text-editor-happ...

If the other GNOME apps decide to support these type of themes it will be a while before that happens too because their ports to GTK4 and libadwaita are not finished, and because they will probably wait for the recoloring API instead of doing it all in CSS like the text editor currently does.

>Of course, some people may not have this problem and they might find these choice of colors as perfectly normal which is exactly why theming and user choice is important

But this isn't an argument in favor of "theming and user choice", this is an argument in favor of providing a low-contrast option for accessibility.

>unsupported, generally looked down upon

This is incorrect. There are several official extensions maintained by GNOME developers.

>and called as hacks by the GNOME team, just like GNOME tweak tool and GTK_THEME

That's somewhat true, extensions can be very hacky. It is however a lot easier to maintain one extension then it is to maintain thousands of themes for every possible toolkit, app, web site. If you view theming as the only other solution then your choice is really with choosing one hack versus another hack. If you're not planning to develop any themes or extensions and maintain them yourself indefinitely then I really don't understand why you would even care about themes at all, the best option for you would be a low-contrast toggle.

I think you may be confused about the full definition of "unsupported" here. The tweak tool and GTK_THEME (and in some sense, extensions) are not considered unsupported because nobody wants those features. The missing piece is for somebody to figure out what a reliable solution is and make everything work correctly with a real API, and then volunteer to support that for years.

>Does it allow changing the background color of a window and foreground color of the text in a GTK app

In some way it does. I don't know why you're asking me this because I can't decide for you, if you're an app or theme developer you need to look at the draft yourself to see if it would be adequate for you. From what I hear, it should roughly do what you can see in those text editor screenshots I linked above.

>would it be officially supported?

I don't know what the status of it is, I only saw the draft. You would have to ask the developers. IRC or Matrix is a good place to ask questions.

Re: The end of the nice GTK button

#666
User here: the only thing I don't like about GTK buttons is that they are large, and the toolbar they are in has a lot of empty space around them. Does everybody have multiple large monitors on their desk? What about 13 inch laptops?

Why is there not a global "compact UI" option?

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