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Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

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Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#661

Post by bregma »

gumby wrote: post #442
makomk wrote: post #24

Headline on the front page of BBC News right now: "Trudeau vows to freeze anti-mandate protesters' bank accounts" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60383385 This feels downright dystopian, especially if the move away from cash and towards centrally-controlled electronic payment systems is anywhere near as widespread in Canada as elsewhere.

Due to layout, there was a line break for me at the end of “Trudeau vows to freeze anti-mandate protesters” which, given that it’s Canada in the winter, seemed eminently plausible, if a little bit cruel.

It's been going below -25 C at night for the past few days in Ottawa and the truckers are sleeping in their cabs. I have no doubt there will be some who blame Trudeau.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#662

Post by ALittleLight »

slibhb wrote: post #158
Jackim wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an exaggerated headline. Accounts being used to fund illegal activities can be frozen. Protesting is not and will not be illegal. Blocking critical infrastructure is illegal.

We have a word for "blocking infrastructure" as a form of protest: civil disobedience. I'm sympathetic to (some) of the aims of the protesters but I think they've made their point and should go home. Still, this move by Trudeau seems like an overreaction considering there's been little/no violence.

One thing I've never understood about protests of the "you've made your point" variety is what they're supposed to do. I'm thinking of the Women's March and things like that, where there's a scheduled day and people walk around and then they are done. What is that supposed to do? It's less of a protest and more of a parade in my opinion.

The trucker protest, on the other hand, I can understand what it is supposed to do. Make people uncomfortable, block critical infrastructure, force the government to do what you want. But, if truckers just leave, then we're back to "What's the point of this?"

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#663

Post by SECProto »

rasz wrote: post #535
SECProto wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For what it's worth, Trudeau lost the popular vote last year. For what it's worth: no he didn't, he got 50.3% of the vote[1]. We don't directly elect prime ministers in Canada. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papineau_(electoral_district)#...

50% in a tiny district, 33% whole Canada.

My comment was a nitpick about how the Canadian electoral system works: no one outside of that particular riding voted for Justin Trudeau, they only voted for their own member of parliament.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#664

Post by bregma »

jcadam wrote: post #502
makomk wrote: post #24

Headline on the front page of BBC News right now: "Trudeau vows to freeze anti-mandate protesters' bank accounts" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60383385 This feels downright dystopian, especially if the move away from cash and towards centrally-controlled electronic payment systems is anywhere near as widespread in Canada as elsewhere.

Banks can freeze accounts based on suspicion alone with no recourse? That’s how you start a bank run…

There will be recourse. This is not US-style civil forfeiture.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#665

Post by _clhx »

sdsaga12 wrote: post #451
makomk wrote: post #24

Headline on the front page of BBC News right now: "Trudeau vows to freeze anti-mandate protesters' bank accounts" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60383385 This feels downright dystopian, especially if the move away from cash and towards centrally-controlled electronic payment systems is anywhere near as widespread in Canada as elsewhere.

Here is a YouTube channel that has been doing extended livestreams from the ground with both protestors and counter-protestors: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzGiDDKdphJ0GFvEd82WfYQ/vid... As I wrote elsewhere in this thread [1], I recommend taking a look at this channel or other extended livestreams to get a view from the ground if your impression of this event has been mostly shaped by articles. That recommendat…

Freedom of speech ends IMO when people can't sleep or enjoy the city they live in for a very extended time b/c of the 24/7 honking.

I am all for demonstrating, but I think it is a little ridiculous what they are doing.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#666

Post by ryanbrunner »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #508
philistine wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their core demand up until two days ago was to depose our current federal government and replace it with a their own government. When is a cat not a cat? How clear must it be for you to understand?

Sounds like basically every protest since the summer of 2020.

Name me a protest since 2020 that had a specific and documented demand to appeal to a head of state to remove a democratically elected government and replace it with a "people's council" composed entirely of the protestors?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#667

Post by bregma »

s5p wrote: post #620
makomk wrote: post #24

Headline on the front page of BBC News right now: "Trudeau vows to freeze anti-mandate protesters' bank accounts" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60383385 This feels downright dystopian, especially if the move away from cash and towards centrally-controlled electronic payment systems is anywhere near as widespread in Canada as elsewhere.

The individuals accounts ARE already frozen. The protesters are getting jail time, $100,000 fines and their trucks confiscated. The rest of the truckers will have to obtain a proof of vaccination BEFORE they are aloowed to drive their trucks again.

They will not be forced to get vaccinated. No one has been forced to get vaccinated yet, and the provincial governments (it's not a federal jurisdiction) are unlikely to start doing so now.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#668

Post by YZF »

daenz wrote: post #353
jsjsbdkj wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no "loss of mandate". The Canadian people are overwhelmingly vaccinated and don't mind wearing masks. 90+% of truckers are fully vaccinated. Canadians re-elected Trudeau during the pandemic. The issue is that Ottawa Police were afraid of media backlash if they did any crowd control for the initial "protest" weekend. This allowed the occupiers to move in heavy machinery as barricades. When the weekend ended an…

>The Canadian people are overwhelmingly vaccinated and don't mind wearing masks. 90+% of truckers are fully vaccinated. Then why require the mandate? I haven't seen any answer to that question besides the implied: "because we demand full compliance."

I'm pretty sure the decision to require truckers to be vaccinated at the border crossing or quarantine (no, they're not forced to vaccinate) came about around Nov 18th when Delta was ramping up. It's just that the implementation was not immediate. I think it made sense back then to try and figure out ways to generally increase the vaccine coverage. By the way the US has the exact same requirement (so even getting the Canadian Federal government to reverse its position here wouldn't change anything for those truckers).

Now with Omicron (for the last few weeks at least) it's clearly not needed any more, but governments move slowly, so it'd take a few more weeks. There's other restrictions that were put in around that timeframe that no longer make sense, like requiring PCR tests, and all those are on their way out.

This protest makes no sense except as a way of sowing chaos and seeking to destabilize the country.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#669

Post by ryanbrunner »

torstenvl wrote: post #238
jsjsbdkj wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no "loss of mandate". The Canadian people are overwhelmingly vaccinated and don't mind wearing masks. 90+% of truckers are fully vaccinated. Canadians re-elected Trudeau during the pandemic. The issue is that Ottawa Police were afraid of media backlash if they did any crowd control for the initial "protest" weekend. This allowed the occupiers to move in heavy machinery as barricades. When the weekend ended an…

> There's no "loss of mandate" https://angusreid.org/trudeau-tracker/ "A new Angus Reid poll showed that 54% of Canadians support an immediate halt to all pandemic restrictions, a stark contrast to the 56% who said as recently as in December they would have supported another round of lockdowns over Omicron." https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2022/02/13/2662060/half-o...

That's a editorialized quote. The source survey didn't say anything about "immediately" or "all" restrictions.

The specific question was "It’s time to end restrictions and let people self isolate if they’re at risk.", which describes basically the process that basically all provinces were going through prior to the protests.

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