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TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

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Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#661

Post by ralusek »

n8cpdx wrote: post #648
ralusek wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay well let's limit the conversation to #1, then. Let's start with legal, since it's easier. --- So, I don't understand what any of what you linked has to do with "legalizing the existence of trans people." Nothing referenced in the wikipedia article is remotely to do with making it illegal to be transgender, and I have never heard an argument advocating for that. So what is being debated is whether or not transgen…

I don’t know why you would limit the discussion to #1 when #2 is the only part that is really relevant to the topic at hand. Assertion 1 is offered as evidence that TT wouldn’t need to actively suppress trans content for it to be unpopular. Perhaps that was unconvincing. I’d say you’re arguing a lot about specifics of terms to weasel out of accepting that some people don’t like trans people. The language argument is…

Okay, so if we're talking about murdering people because they are trans, that is what I'm talking about as not allowing them to exist. So let's look at the data. 33 gender-non-conforming people killed in 2021, by August, which we can extrapolate out to 50 for the year.

CDC says 19,000 homicides per year: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

So, 50/19,000 means that 0.26% of murders are to gender-non-conforming people, which is less than the 0.6% of the US population which identifies as transgender. So the murders are literally under represented. And given that the murders are a broader category of gender-non-conforming, vs the 0.6% figure which is a subset that is specifically trans, the degree to which gender-non-conforming people are murdered as compared to the general population is even more under-represented.

So, no, trans people are not being prevented from existing in that capacity in the United States.

Now, in regards to not accepting people's identity, as I've already said...this is a completely different thing. If you take someone like JK Rowling, who is frequently labeled a TERF, then the criteria for "not allowing trans people to exist" is literally predicated on the existence of somebody who says that biological women exist as a valid category that is distinct from trans women. That is what JK Rowling says. She doesn't say trans people don't exist. She doesn't say that trans identities aren't valid, or that she wouldn't treat a trans person by the gender they identify with. She just says that a biological woman is a valid categorization. Now, of course there are people that don't accept that trans people's identities are what they say they are, but again, this also includes a good deal of semantic disagreement.

When a trans woman asserts "I am a woman," and somebody else says "no you're not," there is quite a bit of semantic warfare going on in that disagreement. The trans woman is saying, "I am a woman, which I mean to say that my gender is woman, which I mean to say is that my gender identity is woman, and therefore I am a woman." The critic says "no, you are not a woman, which I mean to say that your sex is not a woman." Again, this is not denying their right to exist, this is functionally a semantic argument. Freedom to exist does not mean that everyone in the society accepts the identity you put forth, and this isn't just limited to gender issues.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#662

Post by romwell »

andrepd wrote: post #607
romwell wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately, the masses don't seem to care. It looks like you know enough to hate it without using it . What's up with the sense of superiority here? The "masses" do care, but if you were an active user of the platform, you'd know that nothing comes even close to what TikTok brings to the table. E.g.: do I care that TikTok censors LGBTQ+ crowd? Absolutely. But guess which platform allows me to connect with that d…

>But guess which platform allows me to connect with that demographic the most. Yup, that's still TikTok. And what I learned on that platform changed my life for the better like a magic wand. Can you elaborate further? This seems quite intense praise. What do you mean by "changed my life like a magic wand"? It's just hyperactive short videos, isn't it?

>It's just hyperactive short videos, isn't it?

It's not.

There is a fledgling neurodivergent community (people with ADHD, ASD, etc) who openly talk about what the symptoms look like from the perspective of people who experience them, how to cope with them, and how all of this fits into the larger picture of our existence in this world.

A lot of people have never been diagnosed because their symptoms don't manifest themselves in a "typical" way. DSM is written from the perspective of "describe how your teenage son makes life inconvenient for you" when it comes to ADHD/ASD, not "which everyday experience are awfully hard for you".

Due to the abysmal state of healthcare access in the US, including mental healthcare, and persistent stigmatization of mental healthcare, self-diagnosis is now effectively the first (and the most important) step towards getting an official diagnosis and care (or simply taking advantage of all the available resources).

On top of that, normalizing the discourse surrounding mental health disorders and neurotypes, and showing how ADHD, ASD, OCD, BPD, anxiety, depression, etc. feel to the person who experiences it has an enormous impact on adults who have been struggling all their lives without ever realizing why.

Realizing both that most people don't face the same challenges (i.e. that it's easy for them to do things that are challenging to you!), and finding that you are not alone, and finding out how to deal with it, and finding a supportive community - all of that is life-changing.

In fewer words, imagine having a shrimp allergy, but living in a society that does not recognize allergies and shames people who don't eat shrimp as "weak".

So you eat shrimp every day, feel awful because your body can't handle it, and then feel guilty for not being "strong" enough. "You are just not trying hard enough!", the society tells you.

Imagine discovering a community of people who have shrimp allergies. Learning that it's a thing. Learning that you don't have to eat the same things most people do, that there's a better way to experience food. Learning that if you can't avoid it, antihistamines exist that you can take to make the experience far more bearable. Learning that really, a shrimp allergy doesn't make you worthless as a person.

That's what the neurodivergent TikTok is currently doing.

My guess is that it just shows hyperactive short meaningless videos to you because either it doesn't have enough input from you to train the algorithm - or maybe that's what you like watching on of the platform. Perhaps your community isn't on TikTok yet.

But as one of the people ostensibly "harmed" by TikTok, I find it offensive that someone would so boldly speak on my behalf when my experience has been the exact opposite.

Hope this helps.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#663

Post by bllguo »

xyzelement wrote: post #466
vkou wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are important differences between being influenced by domestic actors, as part of a domestic political process, and being influenced by foreign actors Just because the actors are domestic doesn't make it at all better. Domestic actors don't have public welfare in mind, they have their own welfare in mind. This influence happens behind close doors, and I, as a constituent, don't get to have any input on it. Fo…

>> Just because the actors are domestic doesn't make it at all better. Domestic actors don't have public welfare in mind No love for any social network from me, but there's a huge difference between a company looking for its own interest, and one being controlled by a state which may be in a hot (or certainly cold) war with your country in the near future. You can surmise that FB will put its interests over your own,…

The US has had by far the most aggressive foreign policy in the last several decades. There's simply no contest. No matter what you think of China's track record, it is clearly focused on domestic control and internal security. A statement like "Chinese owned media will actively look to harm you and the place you live" is delusion, not borne out by any of the facts. A frightening example of how easily the state can designate new scapegoats.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#664

Post by 908B64B197 »

aerosmile wrote: post #235
cronix wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another thing Tik Tok does is get rid of people who are obese, queer, or otherwise the target of harassment. Their stance is it's easier to get rid of the person being made fun of or limit who can see their videos rather than the 10k people harassing them. > According to Netzpolitik, the social media company instructed moderators to find users who are “susceptible to harassment or cyberbullying based on their physica…

If you had an issue with Zuck calling early Facebook users "dumb f**ks," wait until you find out what's going on behind the closed Tik Tok doors. You have to remember - we're still in the honeymoon phase with Tik Tok and haven't learned to hate them yet. Once the media and all your friends start sharing hatred about Tik Tok, leaks are going to start coming out, and there will be all the other fun ways through which w…

the idea that Americans are more innovative hasn't been true for quite a while - look at Nio, Xiaomi, Huawei, ByteDance, and countless other examples.

I wonder how many employees at these corporations previously worked at Tesla, Apple, Cisco and Vines...

In Huawei's case, the binaries shipped with the products still had the Cisco copyright strings in them!

> back in 2008 when Facebook was tiny on a global scale, there was a German €100m company called StudiVZ that dominated the social networking in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland with about 10m active users.

What happened?

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#665

Post by 908B64B197 »

nos4A2 wrote: post #266
ALittleLight wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thesis for America exceeding China in the near term future that I have heard is "Our Chinese will beat their Chinese." [1] 1 - https://alphastar.academy/us-team-wins-1st-place-at-internat...

I wouldn't take that for granted at all, the last 4 years will definitely have a lasting impact on any brain gain the US might've had.

My observation is that it actually accelerated said brain-gain.

There was a crackdown on fraudulent H1B applications, with more RFEs being issued. That freed a lot of spots for legitimate applicants that were hogged by questionable bodyshops. It also incentivized attorneys to start looking at O-1 (and they are easier than people think for real engineers to get).

Academically, a lot was written (by foreign universities) about how the US was going to lose it's edge have a drop in applicants but the rankings didn't change during the last 4 years. I wouldn't be surprised if more people applied simply because they (erroneously) believed that admission would be a little less competitive with less applicants.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#666

Post by xyzelement »

bllguo wrote: post #663
xyzelement wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Just because the actors are domestic doesn't make it at all better. Domestic actors don't have public welfare in mind No love for any social network from me, but there's a huge difference between a company looking for its own interest, and one being controlled by a state which may be in a hot (or certainly cold) war with your country in the near future. You can surmise that FB will put its interests over your own,…

The US has had by far the most aggressive foreign policy in the last several decades. There's simply no contest. No matter what you think of China's track record, it is clearly focused on domestic control and internal security. A statement like "Chinese owned media will actively look to harm you and the place you live" is delusion, not borne out by any of the facts. A frightening example of how easily the state can d…

I am not looking to argue which country is objectively better/worse (although I disagree with your view, it's not important to disprove it for the point I am making.)

Whatever that is, I live in the US and so do many TikTok users. As a point of view of someone who lives in the US, being dominated by a foreign adversary is a bad thing. Giving that adversary control of what we see and think about is therefore very dangerous.

I totally understand that if you're in China your perspective on this will be backwards but here's one example: let's say China invades Taiwan which is our ally. Should the US defend our ally? Would china use its control of social media to make most Americans not aware/not care/be misinformed about the situation to ensure that the US does not get involved?

Again, not expecting you to agree, but do think that someone who lives in and likes the US to care about this

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#667

Post by rvz »

xvector wrote: post #660
rvz wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are showing me that both Reddit and TikTok do fingerprinting on their users? There is no difference in any of the posts you have linked. You might need to read both of those posts again. So this is not far more invasive tracking in TikTok as of 2021 then? [0] [1] [0] https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/03/tiktok-just-gave-itself-pe... [1] https://www.wsj.com/video/series/inside-tiktoks-highly-secre...

No, biometric prints are used by every major social media company.

> used by every major social media company.

Substantiate your comment with concrete, up-to-date sources otherwise your claim can be dismissed as baseless.

For example, in TikTok's own privacy policy: [0]

   > "We may collect biometric identifiers and biometric information as defined under US laws, such as faceprints and voiceprints, from your User Content. Where required by law, we will seek any required permissions from you prior to any such collection."
Given that it has been admitted after a privacy lawsuit [1] which confirmed that all of this was the case, How is this not worse than the other social media companies that already collect your data, but in this case it also includes voiceprints?

On top of that, they were sued for billions for abusing under-age children's data of this year [2]. Then I asked you how long until they screw with their users again? [3]. No response or evidence from you obviously but after that question, it turns out it took them 22 days to do it again. [4]

So actually 'Yes'. My point still stands.

[0] https://www.tiktok.com/legal/privacy-policy?lang=en

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/25/22301704/tiktok-92-millio...

[2] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56815480

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27553242

[4] https://autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/en/news/tiktok-fined-v...

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#668

Post by aerosmile »

908B64B197 wrote: post #664
aerosmile wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you had an issue with Zuck calling early Facebook users "dumb f**ks," wait until you find out what's going on behind the closed Tik Tok doors. You have to remember - we're still in the honeymoon phase with Tik Tok and haven't learned to hate them yet. Once the media and all your friends start sharing hatred about Tik Tok, leaks are going to start coming out, and there will be all the other fun ways through which w…

the idea that Americans are more innovative hasn't been true for quite a while - look at Nio, Xiaomi, Huawei, ByteDance, and countless other examples. I wonder how many employees at these corporations previously worked at Tesla, Apple, Cisco and Vines... In Huawei's case, the binaries shipped with the products still had the Cisco copyright strings in them! > back in 2008 when Facebook was tiny on a global scale, ther…

The same that's happening with Facebook and Tik Tok - the new guys built a better product and that was it. In a sense, it's how life works - the winner takes it all. But that's only true in a 100% free-for-all society, whereas most countries have found that some level of regulation is better than none. To take this a level further, consider the fact that many European countries impose tariffs on US-made cars, making them substantially more expensive to buy in Europe than in the US. A way around that, obviously, is to manufacture them in Europe. Is there something to be said about asking a company that's about to kick Facebook's ass, to use a US-based hosting infrastructure for their US traffic?

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#669

Post by random314 »

romwell wrote: post #539
random314 wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might not care about the future. But others on this forum do.

>You might not care about the future. But others on this forum do. See, at no point did I ever make claim about what other people here are , or claim to know how they feel or think . But the implication just made regarding me and caring about the future is the kind of unprovoked hostility that I feel safe from on TikTok, but not here. Whether I care about future, or cats, or fancy tea is not up for discussion .

Maybe perhaps, it might have occurred to you that your response to mbesto is perhaps the best example of "unprovoked hostility" in this thread. Your shrieking, outright nasty responses and sense of entitlement don't automatically make you a victim. Stop trying to police other people's thoughts, responses, beliefs and predictions about Tiktok.

And yes, pretty please, can you please get off my lawn? I didn't come here to witness mental derangement.

> If that was the point, what's the point of stating that point? "The thing y'all enjoy now will be crap in a few years, get off my lawn?"

> I didn't come here for fortune-telling.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#670

Post by romwell »

smoldesu wrote: post #655
romwell wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to add to what you said: >The shorter length of the medium encourages sensationalized media rather than longer, more reasoned takes. This is changing. Most videos I see are 1 minute long, many of them sped up 2x (perfect format for me). And you can upload videos up to 3 minutes long now - which is good enough for a lightning talk. And the time limitation is what has forced people to state their points very coher…

> But who would want to build something that (if you read the comments here!) is only seen with scorn? > An open-source TikTok alternative that communities can sprout it would be awesome. And for that to happen, we need to talk about what makes TikTok good. Because creating a clone with all of the downsides is easy. Figuring out what made it the #1 app, I believe, is the most important part if you want TikTok to go a…

My oppression. I'm a neurodivergent/queer creator on TikTok.

You're trying to speak on my behalf here, so maybe listen to what I'm trying to yell you?

And it's that yes, TikTok does have plenty of "magic dust" that no other platform has.

I know of Matrix/Mastodon, and sorry, but that tech stack is waaaaay too far off the mark. They barely cut it as Slack/Facebook replacements.

Google and Facebook also have money. What they don't have is a #1 app, in spite of benefiting from the existing network effect.

Did it not occur to you that TikTok must have brought something new to the table to get to that spot?

What you're missing is that it's not the creator/follower dynamic you see on Instagram. TikTok enables and encouraged everyone to be a creator in a way that no other platform currently does.

If you want to argue about this, for God's/sanity's sake please at least use that app for a week to get some firsthand knowledge if you haven't already done so, and post a video or two.

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