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How to Work Hard

paulgraham.com

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Re: How to Work Hard

#661

Post by tyrex2017 »

fchu wrote: post #272

There is something fascinating about this article, and it's not the tips about how to properly work hard, which aren't new or particularly insightful (otherwise reasonable and well summarized). It's the fact that throughout the article, hard work is an implied imperative in life, the main thing to do (otherwise it brings a "feeling of disgust"), without questioning if that's healthy, right, or so absolute. Maybe inst…

The question you address is much more difficult to answer, if not impossible.

I read the article with the preface: Lets suppose workimg hard is desirable. How to do this?

This is the correct reading for me

Re: How to Work Hard

#662

Post by tptacek »

dang wrote: post #482
zz865 wrote: post #479

Does PG ever spend time with his children? I always feel I should be working harder which makes spending time with family difficult.

He is an extremely dedicated father. Much of his Twitter feed is about things he does with his children.

He should let much more of that into his writing, because he could have written this post in 2007 and it would mostly read the same, and he's not the same person he was back then. Also, in sort of the same way that pg-writing-about-lisp is one of the harder pg's to dislike, dad-mode pg is probably his most likable and persuasive mode.

Re: How to Work Hard

#663

Post by vl »

edanm wrote: post #564
bachmeier wrote: post #498

> It was similar with Lionel Messi. He had great natural ability, but when his youth coaches talk about him, what they remember is not his talent but his dedication and his desire to win. I can assure you, there are many kids that practice harder than Messi did when he was young. He is not a great player because of hard work, he is a great player because of luck. I know the VC thing about the importance of hard work.…

Putting aside the fact that the article explicitly agrees with you that just hard work isn't enough, here's the part of your comment I don't understand: > I know the VC thing about the importance of hard work. They love to promote hard work because that's how they make money. Why would they promote hard work if hard work didn't matter? And if it does matter, then what exactly is your problem with what pg is saying?

Of course hard work matters, but when VC tells you to work hard, take it with the grain of salt, because this is how VC is going to make money off your work. What is missing from this advice is what is sacrificed. If and when 10-20 year later you cash out, what else are you going to have beside money? Family, friends, health? If you can make this trade-off consciously - good for you, but most people just go with the flow and don't think about it until it's too late.

Double irony of this advice is that many VCs are one of the most laid-back people you can meet. Usually they are already rich, so they don't exactly have to hussle anymore, and can choose when to do so.

Re: How to Work Hard

#664

Post by breadzeppelin__ »

helen___keller wrote: post #162

When I was an undergrad at CMU, I learned how to work hard. Really hard. After having coasted through too-easy high school, I spent all day every day at CMU either programming, doing mathematics, or thinking about one of those things (to great effect: often the trick to prove a theorem would pop into my head while showering or while taking a walk). I would fall asleep while programming in the middle of the night, dre…

is it anxiety? I don't have a single hobby at this point that doesn't involve learning new stuff or having to work as part of it. I've totally stopped watching movies for enjoyment or playing video games because it feels so "unproductive"

Re: How to Work Hard

#665

Post by luffapi »

ultrasounder wrote: post #546
bachmeier wrote: post #498

> It was similar with Lionel Messi. He had great natural ability, but when his youth coaches talk about him, what they remember is not his talent but his dedication and his desire to win. I can assure you, there are many kids that practice harder than Messi did when he was young. He is not a great player because of hard work, he is a great player because of luck. I know the VC thing about the importance of hard work.…

howdy. as someone who has followed his career trajectory for the last 15 yars, I can assure You that "Luck" or serendipity or however You want to normalize his abilities has nothing to do with his abilities. Its Sheer Hard-work and Will to win. Being lucky is scoring 50 goals one season and 10 the second. This guys averages 50+ every season. So You might want to read up on it before You hypothesize. Like Spock famous…

In what way did PG work hard? His job seems incredibly cushy to me. He even had the leisure to write his own lisp! VCs don’t work hard. They sit there and watch people grovel.

Re: How to Work Hard

#666

Post by sidlls »

_Nat_ wrote: post #202
sidlls wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would mean putting effort ("working hard") at understanding something outside one's own thought bubble. PG's essays are exercises in narcissism and confirmation bias: they're the last place to go to for the kind of wisdom you suggest.

Admittedly I'm a puzzled by the quality-level of these posts. A lot of stuff, like the lack of formatting and HTTPS, give off an antique feel, almost like a signal that they're not meant to be taken seriously. Ditto for the over-the-top arrogant tone and relatively sparse content. I might be off-base on this, but I sometimes wonder if these articles aren't like a honey-pot for non-serious YCombinator applicants. Like…

All the things you noted aren’t substantive arguments against the essay, in my view.

The casual assertions, the unsupported and contentious theme, and the complete omission of anything approaching a consideration of alternatives are common themes in PG’s essays. And those are what make them almost uniformly worthless, in my opinion.

Re: How to Work Hard

#667

Post by username90 »

bluedino wrote: post #466
gmadsen wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to conflict with the preface that you are constantly learning and improving, which should include changing jobs when you have become stagnant. you can make absurd money working in finance with java programming.

What happens when 'everyone works hard'? Sure, the people doing trading algorithms will make money but not the people doing CRUD apps.

People doing CRUD apps at Google makes lots of money and Google still hires everyone who pass their general tests afaik. Not everyone can work at Google, but if all software engineers were great we would have way more well run tech companies and therefore more companies paying similar to Google. So that argument doesn't really makes sense, software demand is still far from being met so all value any programmer can be delivered will be used up. Unlike for example cleaners, if every cleaner did 2x the work then we would just hire half as many cleaners.

Re: How to Work Hard

#668

Post by Nursie »

tobltobs wrote: post #635
Nursie wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could say the same about novels and be just as correct. You’ve never made friends through a shared interest in games, or even through the games themselves? You’ve never been enthralled with the story of a game, and been left richer afterwards? You’ve missed out, and you’ve missed out through snobbery.

A novel can make you addicted? Like you have to read it every day? I played a lot with friends, but I never made friends through playing. I was enthralled by games, but when I was finished I wasn't "richer" in any way, just shorter of time. It is ok to waste your time if it is fun, but trying to glorify wasting your time is just trying to find an excuse.

Like I said, I would be just as correct. There are addictive games and gamers, just as there are trashy novels and people who devour them one after another. I would consider neither more valid than the other.

I have met people I value through games and gaming, just as I have through Internet forums. I have experienced emotional highs and lows through the characters I’ve encountered in games, through the twists and turns of stories.

Like I said, perhaps you’ve missed out.

I’ve also blown off a lot of steam and enjoyed it as frivolous entertainment. I’m not trying to say it’s always worthy, social or a growth experience, that would be as absurd a claim as that it can never be so.

Re: How to Work Hard

#669

Post by username90 »

luffapi wrote: post #465
reader_mode wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what I'm getting at. You can accumulate >1M net worth just by being an engineer/contractor - no need to get into upper management or socialise with rich people. Working on acquiring experience early on in your career will accelerate the point where you're making decent money where you're able to save/invest a decent portion of your income. Your path doesn't sound widely reproducible.

You don’t need to work hard to acquire that much money as an engineer. You can totally coast and make market salary. The hard part is going to be having the discipline to save and live beneath your means.

You have to work hard to get the job in the first place. A large majority of people can't even get through the basics of learning to code so can't even get a degree or do the basics to get a job as a self learner. To them getting a software engineering job is too much hard work and they instead just continue earning their poor salaries.

Re: How to Work Hard

#670

Post by jakemal »

bachmeier wrote: post #570
edanm wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting aside the fact that the article explicitly agrees with you that just hard work isn't enough, here's the part of your comment I don't understand: > I know the VC thing about the importance of hard work. They love to promote hard work because that's how they make money. Why would they promote hard work if hard work didn't matter? And if it does matter, then what exactly is your problem with what pg is saying?

> the article explicitly agrees with you that just hard work isn't enough It does not in any way agree with me. I am saying luck is important. If that's anywhere in there, I missed it. > Why would they promote hard work if hard work didn't matter? Hard work is not the distinguishing characteristic. Luck is. Why promote hard work? Because someone else is working hard for your benefit.

Hard work is necessary but not sufficient. I agree that the essay glosses over the element of luck that is involved, but I don't think that makes the rest of what Paul is saying wrong. Even if hard work alone doesn't always lead to success, not working hard guarantees that you won't be exceptional.
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