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Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

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Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#661

Post by syshum »

jbluepolarbear wrote: post #386
syshum wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it is not, but ok. I bet you are one of those people that believe wait staff only make $2/hr right?

It’s closer to $3/hr before tips. If they don’t make minimum wage from tips and $3/hr the restaurant must supplement to at least minimum wage. That’s a lot to just make minimum wage.

Well lets do some math.

Around here an average meal at a restaurant would be about $14 lunch and $18 dinner per person.

So to make the often promoted $15/hr wage, the server would need to clear $96 in tips over the base wage of $3/hr. At an average of 18% tips that would mean the ticket revenue would need to be $534 for the shift. @16 avg per person that is about 4 people per hour, or 1 or 2 tables per hour

If the restaurant is that slow, that the server is only serving 1 table per hour, well chances are the server needs to look for another job anyway because that place will not be in business very long.

This is also why alot of servers I know prefer the tipped model over a higher base wage, if a strait 15/hr wage was created with no tips, many servers would make LESS money then under the current system

Most of the people calling for a $15/hr base wage have a delusional belief they will make $15/hr PLUS tips... that is never going to happen

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#662

Post by matz1 »

grumple wrote: post #657
matz1 wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you are not aware, if the tip is not enough to match the non tipped minimum wage then the employer has to make up the difference.

In practice, tipped employees typically get 0 dollar paychecks from their employers; the business assumes that your tips bring you up to the minimum wage, whether true or not, and they pay taxes on your behalf accordingly. This is also typically calculated on a pay period basis, rather than by hour or by day, which results in overstaffing during slow periods to the detriment of all employees, because as long as you g…

Thats not true, tipped employees typically do get >0 dollar paycheck from their employers. That is their base hourly wage.

general minimum wage is peanuts, yes. but tipped waitstaff only make $2.83/hr is not true. If the employer did not make up the difference then they risk being fined/shutdown.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#663

Post by alisonatwork »

bko wrote: post #652
alisonatwork wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The QR code doesn't change the quality of the food. It's just a correlation that the restaurants that moved to a QR code ordering system tended to also be the ones that hired kids who didn't much care about cooking, and who just produced the same bland dish every time, regardless of who was ordering. I do my best to eat plant-based most of the time, so I always appreciate when I can have a chat to the cook or server…

> also be the ones that hired kids who didn't much care about cooking, and who just produced the same bland dish every time, regardless of who was ordering I personally go to restaurants for consistency. Do you really think waiters taking orders pass along information about who ordered the order and their preferences? You can give instructions to the waiter but from my experience it's not carried a large chunk of the…

I think there is a misunderstanding in this thread about what types of restaurants provide these QR code ordering systems in China.

From my perspective, if I need to use an app to select my dish, applying only the pre-approved customizations, then the experience is no different from ordering delivery. If you live in the US, then perhaps this experience is not unusual, since it's a lot like the experience of visiting a chain restaurant - same menu in every location, same customizations available, same "perky" waitstaff, same supplier of ingredients behind the scenes - it's basically just a more expensive version of fast food. Adding a QR code ordering system to this kind of restaurant is not changing much about the experience other than the speed of ordering.

But in other countries - notably China - there is a whole nother class of restaurants that is both cheaper and more personalized than a chain. And these family-owned restaurants are the ones that are being edged out by more expensive, less culinarily interesting restaurants whose primary appeal appears to be gimmicky apps that provide either the same or less functionality than a food delivery app does.

It might be that these chain restaurants are successful because a lot of people prioritize consistency over everything else. But I feel like in China in particular it is more trend- and status-based. People think it's cool to order on their phones instead of talking to the server, or they think it's classy to eat what the folks in Shanghai are eating instead of the local food from their region.

Personally, I would prefer to see more local restaurants and less chains, not just in China but everywhere in the world. I understand that's an orthogonal issue to QR code ordering, just in China it does appear to be correlated.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#664

Post by xster »

sdevonoes wrote: post #445
infecto wrote: post #417

It's really interesting to see how a crowd of tech workers who generally are trying to pave the way are so quick to attack and be negative. Like all things in life, when its implemented well it works and when it does not it is terrible. I still think there is room for this to be the future though. I say this as a westerner but perhaps the west is not ready for it yet but I really enjoyed the experience of using QR co…

Main downside: I don't always take my phone with me. I don't hate QR code, but adding a "backup" menu that is accessible without phones is a must I believe.

On the flip side, I don't always take my wallet with me. It seems a lot easier to go phone only (especially in China) than wallet only.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#665

Post by syshum »

mcguire wrote: post #651
syshum wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several of the large chains already have pay at table kiosk's I have always wondered why they just do not have order at table as well... I am waiting for the first restaurant that only has Cooks and Food Runners with no traditional waitstaff... This will likely coincide with the removal of tipping as a custom in the US. We will move to kiosk ordering, press a button to get drink refills, pay at the table, and leave.

Have you been to a buffet?

not recently, most of the buffet's around me closed permanently due to covid, while we did allow indoor dinning, their was a ban of self service food.

A few converted to carry out only, and have not gone back to buffet style.

There are still a few open of course but no where near as many, and the ones that survived seems to be of lesser quality

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#666

Post by godelski »

p_j_w wrote: post #550
alisonatwork wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This process was one of my most hated "innovations" in food ordering in China. It turns every restaurant into a production line fast food operation, exactly like American chain restaurants. At that point, why even bother going to a restaurant at all? Might as well just order a Sysco-equivalent microwave meal at the supermarket or 7/11, because the flavor and the service will be exactly the same. For me the best resta…

>This process was one of my most hated "innovations" in food ordering in China. It turns every restaurant into a production line fast food operation, exactly like American chain restaurants. At that point, why even bother going to a restaurant at all? Might as well just order a Sysco-equivalent microwave meal at the supermarket or 7/11, because the flavor and the service will be exactly the same. I usually can't stan…

> I usually can't stand comments that are just "correlation does not imply causation," but are you sure you aren't mixing up the two here?

FWIW I didn't read the gp's comment as implying causation. I read it purely as correlation. That restaurants that use these systems are much more likely to use other cost saving "short cuts" as well. Just because someone notes a correlation does not mean they imply a causal relationship between the two. Correlation, even without causation, can still be highly useful. Lack of causation does not equate to spurious correlations[0]. You'll note that on this website that the problem isn't that one doesn't cause the other, but rather that there's no reason to suspect these factors are correlated in the first place, and that correlation does not imply connection.

[0] https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#668

Post by jdmichal »

Grustaf wrote: post #480
infecto wrote: post #417

It's really interesting to see how a crowd of tech workers who generally are trying to pave the way are so quick to attack and be negative. Like all things in life, when its implemented well it works and when it does not it is terrible. I still think there is room for this to be the future though. I say this as a westerner but perhaps the west is not ready for it yet but I really enjoyed the experience of using QR co…

That's a bit like saying "why bother serving wine from bottles with impractical corks, each table should just have a wine hose with a tap". Going to a restaurant is an experience. A waiter, a physical menu and lots of other inefficiencies are part of that experience.

> why bother serving wine from bottles with impractical corks, each table should just have a wine hose with a tap

To be fair, you just 100% described a keg. It's just not common -- or is even non-existent? -- for wine to come in kegs.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#669

Post by fleddr »

drdeadringer wrote: post #590
fleddr wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To each their own, but to me this ceremony provides zero value. Waiters take the order and may comment on the weather, it's not like we're developing a deep friendship here. The "tradition" is to sit, wait for a waiter to appear. Ask for purpose (lunch? big meal? just a drink?). Then you wait again for the correct menu to appear. Then you get asked for a drink. And wait for the drink. And then comes the longer wait w…

3-4 hours is a long time. That sounds like a leisurely dinner set on "Italian Mode" [no offence] with a reservation, not a work lunch on Tuesday in the US. This ritual or ceremony of waiter, menu, waiting, ordering, signalling for the cheque that you apparently find vile... I enjoy it. Any inefficiency you have declared is part of the experience of going out to eat. You want fast food? Go get fast food. You want a bu…

It didn't say any of those steps are vile. I said that in my opinion, they are needless steps that don't add value to guests or the restaurant itself.

A restaurant wants to know your order. Why does this simple thing take 20-30 mins? Whom benefits? How does it enrich your experience exactly, this useless waiting and pointing at a menu?

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#670

Post by bootlooped »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #34
bootlooped wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if a malicious QR code led to a website that asked diners to pay for their meal at the point that they ordered it, how many of them would?

Setting up a scam payment processing account for that doesn't seem worth the effort when it's going to be reported for fraud basically immediately.

I think you could set up something clever where the QR code redirected to the correct menu 95% of the time, and maybe it didn't charge the credit card initially, and that would last longer than if you had charged something immediately 100% of the time. However, I think your point still stands that it's not worth the trouble and it doesn't scale well.
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