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Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

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Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#661

Post by cjohnson318 »

spcebar wrote: post #489
thepasswordis wrote: post #291

Is anybody advocating for them or encouraging them in any way? I can’t think of a single group which aims to highlight men, uplift men, and encourage masculine behavior. These guys grew up in a school system of almost entirely women teachers, and popular media tells them that if they are successful in any way, it is due to oppression. It’s no wonder why they’re not succeeding. We spent the last 15 years telling them…

Your argument reads like Palahniuk's satircal message in Fight Club. These concepts of masculinity our culture pines for are destructive and unproductive. A woman is no less qualified to raise a man than a man. No one has told them their success is evil. You're conflating women being told their success is success with men being shunned. There's a perception that women and minority groups have somehow gained an advant…

> Your argument reads like Palahniuk's satircal message in Fight Club.

My god, you're exactly right.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#662

Post by vel0city »

vsareto wrote: post #498

Idk, playing video games all day without any responsibilities seems like they’ve straight-up won life. Most of us have to work for that privilege or be born with a trust fund in our name. Only losing side to this path is a lack of romance or intimacy. No one’s likely gonna remember you anyway, for better or worse. Might as well enjoy your time on Earth with some of the most immersive storytelling humanity has invente…

They're winning until they're 45 and their enabling family members finally pass on leaving them nothing as they've extracted all their wealth over the decades enabling such a lifestyle. Then suddenly find themselves with nothing and no skills other than being in the top 500 of Call of Duty 25.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#663

Post by anm89 »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #588
ziziyO wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When all you’ve known is privilege, equality can feel like oppression.

In my country, there are 50% more women in colleges than men, and our colleges still work more to attract more women (with eg. girls-only workshops, etc... we used to call this segregation and/or sexism back in my time). Lets say you have Alice and Bob... they both finished college, both are looking for a job, and they both decide to start their own company - Alice will make plastic spoons, and Bob will make plastic…

Curious which country this is. That ratio sounds really high.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#664

Post by twh270 »

XorNot wrote: post #641
ratsmack wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is mostly economic, but there is also a constant attack on masculinity in young boys.

Such as?

Are you kidding??

I've had numerous conversations about this with my son, starting when he told me he didn't want to grow up to be a "man". Because of what he had absorbed from culture/society.

Today, men are told that we are disposable; Neanderthals; a legacy of the last century and the cause of everything that's wrong in the country/world; that we're patriarchal oppressors; that we're unnecessary and obsolete. The word "masculine" is at best a negative connotation, and usually meant as an attack.

So, yeah, I have first-hand experience with this. On the flip side, from talking with a couple of my son's female friends, they feel the pressure of being told that they can do and be everything. All at the same time. That's not great either.

The best response is to disengage from media and just be yourself. Easier said than done sometimes, for sure, but that's the longterm win.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#665

Post by rayiner »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #657
harryh wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except for the part of an economic system that requires unending growth This is such a tired phrase. Like if we had socialism or communism or some other -ism it wouldn't matter. But that's just not true. The issue is math and the fact that prime age working people (25-55ish) are the ones that, for the most part, make stuff. If you have a shrinking population then the % of the population that makes stuff gets a lot sm…

Only if productivity is flat. If productivity grows faster than the population shrinks you can still have a growing economy with fewer people.

Productivity grown in the service sector (2/3 of the economy) has been just 0.9% annually since 1947: https://aneconomicsense.org/tag/productivity/. It’s pretty much stopped growing over the last couple of decades.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#666

Post by ip26 »

david-gpu wrote: post #263
hardwaregeek wrote: post #223

Video game addiction is a real problem. I spent my freshman year of college rooming with man-children who played video games non-stop. They didn't explore the city, they didn't meet new people, they just played video games in the dark, screaming into their headsets and eating their takeout at their desk. People can certainly have a healthy, fruitful relationship to video games but since then I haven't felt the need t…

Not a psychologist, but I would guess that playing games at all times is more a symptom than a cause. A symptom of depression? A coping mechanism for chronic anxiety? A happy well adjusted person does not try so hard to escape reality or responsibilities. Demeaning them by calling them man-children is not going to help them in the slightest.

I had a period of time where I was pretty hooked, to the detriment of my studies. I don't think I was coping or escaping; at nineteen they were very intricate yet offered a clear progression to mastery. As a young adult, you haven't had the chance to develop mastery yet (which everyone hungers for) and nobody has given you the keys to something really complex before.

Biggest reason I moved on, I think, was quite simply that my horizons rapidly broadened. So, before passing judgement, I'd want to see what became of these young men in a few years time first.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#667

Post by throwaway306744 »

alxwu wrote: post #452
perplex wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some people (myself included) Game/TV addiction is a real problem and can have drastic affects on ones life. (It did for me throughout my 20s/30s). For others it doesn't seem to have negative side effects. My life was held back by time spent gaming for so long and later in life I realized TV was doing the same. Moderation in all things right? For me it is easier to cut them out period. I'm happier and have a far…

I'm in my mid 30s and I am going through this addiction of reddit/youtube and other distractions for the past 10 years. I've always known how harmful it is and I want to change. Do you have any tips for someone like me? I was still able to become an engineer, but I feel like I can be better. Like everyone else my motivation and drive was so much higher when I was younger. I might be using these distractions as a form…

Cut them out and allow yourself to be bored.

Boredom is intolerable.

Humans inevitably become more creative and/or social to escape boredom. See what you're drawn to when you cut out media consumption. You can always go back to reddit after a few months if you've just been bored the entire time.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#668

Post by zaptheimpaler »

twh270 wrote: post #648
flippinburgers wrote: post #511

Men are not doing as well as women in school. If you look in the wrong places on the internet, media, or daily life, all you see is negativity towards masculinity. In addition, there doesn't appear to be any broad social system that is geared towards supporting men. The fact that men don't tend to be a socially adept doesn't help. This all feels like the perfect storm and there are plenty of people who act like "men…

Yup. I've had many conversations about this topic with my son (and on occasion some of his friends -- both male and female), since he was in middle school (a decade ago). They're well aware of how men are portrayed versus women. We've transitioned from "A women's place is in the home (barefoot, pregnant, and cooking a delicious meal for her husband)" to "A woman's place is whatever she wants, and men are the reason f…

Moving discourse to social media and click bait has destroyed so much nuance in all discussions. Everything is black and white now, every issue is just a war between 2 sides and you're either "with us or against us".

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#669

Post by cjohnson318 »

88840-8855 wrote: post #391
thepasswordis wrote: post #291

Is anybody advocating for them or encouraging them in any way? I can’t think of a single group which aims to highlight men, uplift men, and encourage masculine behavior. These guys grew up in a school system of almost entirely women teachers, and popular media tells them that if they are successful in any way, it is due to oppression. It’s no wonder why they’re not succeeding. We spent the last 15 years telling them…

I have a good friend who is working in HR. She used to be in hiring, now she is in the talent and development stream. We are not in the same company. A few weeks ago I was speaking about my impression that my company is forcing women into promotions and positions just for the sake of reaching targets. I said that it felt unfair towards male colleagues. Her reply was something like this: Men had the advantage for thou…

In the shale boom of the mid 2000's, Halliburton hired a lot of women engineers right out of college. My understanding (from male colleagues) was that if they had the minimum requirements and had no red flags, then they were rubber stamped.

The result was that they were all tough as nails and ran a rig as well as any man. There was literally no difference between them and their male counterparts. As others have observed, capability is uniformly distributed, opportunity is not.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#670

Post by shard972 »

cjohnson318 wrote: post #669
88840-8855 wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a good friend who is working in HR. She used to be in hiring, now she is in the talent and development stream. We are not in the same company. A few weeks ago I was speaking about my impression that my company is forcing women into promotions and positions just for the sake of reaching targets. I said that it felt unfair towards male colleagues. Her reply was something like this: Men had the advantage for thou…

In the shale boom of the mid 2000's, Halliburton hired a lot of women engineers right out of college. My understanding (from male colleagues) was that if they had the minimum requirements and had no red flags, then they were rubber stamped. The result was that they were all tough as nails and ran a rig as well as any man. There was literally no difference between them and their male counterparts. As others have obser…

Why haven't we seen this play out in programming teams?
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