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Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

annehelen.substack.com

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Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#661
post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do workers who receive tips want it to go away? The friends I've known who worked jobs with tips seemed to think they would be paid less if tips were replaced with wage increases on the employer end; my understanding is that they made a significant amount of money in tips. Obviously this varies by individual, job, and establishment, though. There some restaurants that tried to go no-tipping, but I think it didn't wor…

everyone i know who has worked tipped and untipped service models preferred the untipped model for stability and the reduced interference of sadistic/irate/careless customers. in fact these people have been pretty instrumental in wider implementation as they have moved on to other work environments and advocated for that change. this is in a state that doesn’t count tips toward minimum wage. the largest harm of the t…

If that were the case, then why did restaurants that switched to no-tipping models see the departure of much of their staff? [0] I would have expected servers to flock to those, but by the sound of it, tipping is reliable enough that servers can leave and go to a restaurant with tips and earn more money.

> “Andrew was very disappointed,” says an employee of Tarlow’s restaurant group, Marlow Collective, who asked to remain anonymous. “But when we went to non-tipping, we pretty much lost our entire staff that had been there for ten years. He wanted to make it work, but it just became really difficult.”

> ...

> But, it turned out, many front-of-house staffers were more concerned with making money than with maintaining the moral high ground. This February, Meyer admitted that he had lost 30 to 40 percent of his “legacy” staffers since 2015. (One Meyer employee told Grub last year that her wages dropped from $60,000 per year to $50,000 under the new policy.)

> ...

> Without widespread buy-in from other restaurants, it’s just too easy for front-of-house workers to leave to make more money elsewhere. “About 40 percent of our servers were like, ‘Hey, this is awesome, but I’m going to go to State Bird Provisions, where I can make 10 percent more,’” Vogler says. “And who doesn’t want to make 10 percent more? They’re not freedom fighters.”

To be sure, maybe they didn't do a good job implementing it. But the cases I've read about restaurants switching to no-tipping usually seem to run into problems with servers being able to earn more money with tips than without them.

I think perhaps part of the problem is that a uniform increase in prices will make people who would have tipped poorly decide not to go, and people who would have tipped generously now pay less. So before with the tipping model, the well-tippers were in effect subsidising the poor-tippers, but now the poor-tippers are gone so there is overall less revenue for the business and servers. But another issue is that they took some of the income earned from the higher prices and gave it to the kitchen staff, which would have been money that would have been available for the waitstaff.

[0]: https://www.grubstreet.com/2018/12/restaurant-tipping-return...

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#662
The problem that is never addressed in these "terrible job" "terrible wage. wages too low" stories is:

Making dual income households the norm was the mistake that has led us to this point. The reason that a fast food job is so impossible to survive on is that at one point, a single guy living in a small apartment and driving a modest car could afford that because his purchasing power was essentially DOUBLE what it is now.

That isn't an option anymore. If you want to be single, you need to also have a high paying job to do it. The other option is poverty, and maybe social services making up some of the costs that for many households is being made up by their spouse.

But it actually is a little worse than that, since it's being burned at both ends. For instance: I'm married. My wife and I are both extremely well paid software developers. This means that we have TWICE the power to buy a house, buy a car, pay for services like cleaners, buy a couch, buy a TV, etc. So now not only is a single person's wage lower due to a flood of the supply side, he's also screwed because the people doubling up on their income have pushed the demand side into the stratosphere.

It sucks, and it breaks my heart seeing the world that my single friends have to live in. Not only are they basically living in poverty, but it makes them unattractive to potential partners who they need to get OUT of that poverty.

I honestly can't really even imagine what the solution is. We certainly aren't going to put the dual income toothpaste back in the tube. Central economic authority forcing businesses to just increase their wages also doesn't seem to be a solution either, since it obviously doesn't even try to address the underlying problem (labor economics, mostly).

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#663
post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please, define what is a poverty wage, it is important. The ability to afford adequate housing, food, and clothing. I'm not saying we should mandate people can afford a 1500 sq. ft. home, ribeye steaks every evening, and Ralph Lauren Polo threads, but how about at least a one bedroom, one bathroom apartment; nutritious, nourishing food; Walmart clothing at a minimum. > What is the change of the model in case of the…

> The ability to afford adequate housing, food, and clothing. I'm not saying we should mandate people can afford a 1500 sq. ft. home, ribeye steaks every evening, and Ralph Lauren Polo threads, but how about at least a one bedroom, one bathroom apartment; nutritious, nourishing food; Walmart clothing at a minimum. Now, what does adequate mean? I guess a place to sleep, a place to clean oneself, food and clothing seem…

Countries like Australia and France seem to have figured out the non-tipping thing. What makes us so special that it won’t work here?

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#665
post #618
post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 10% margin also often doesn't tell the whole story of how they make their money. Nearly since its inception, a substantial portion of McDonald's long term profit came from the appreciation of the real estate the stores were built on. Operating a business on it just made it cash flow positive during the holding period. So it was essentially a REIT that happened to operate a fast food chain. Even for many mom-and-pop…

>If they honestly can't afford to pay a living wage It's not logical to kill businesses by arbitrarily raising the minimum wage. Do you think the people they employ are better off not working at all? These people may not have a decent enough salary, but they get to work as opposed to staying at home and degenerate (mentally and physically). I always thought the better solution is to help them financially in other way…

If raising the minimum wage will do them in, they're already halfway there if things are really[1] that dire and will end up there soon enough. So yes, people are better off not working for those types of businesses. If a business can only remain solvent by paying unreasonably low wages, it puts downward wage pressure on competing businesses and traps unskilled workers in a labor pool of dead-end jobs with little hope of escaping it/them and no time to do so since they're always scrambling to make enough money pay the most urgent bill.

There are plenty of things society needs done to keep displaced workers productive (with better pay and a sense of actual accomplishment) while giving them breathing room to figure out 'what next?' I don't believe for a second that we're doing workers in the sub-basement of the economy any favors by keeping them locked down there. It isn't a binary (either they work in these crap jobs or they sit at home and deteriorate) decision... there are a variety of options between the extremes.

[1] I'm suspicious of the majority of cases where this claim is made. A rational business person would see that such a business is already marginal and that they would likely be better off shutting it down and redeploying the capital elsewhere for a better return. This happens all the time. If the owner can't see this, keeping the business on life support isn't doing anyone any favors.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's certainly not the same risk. If a business goes bust the owners lose capital, the employees lose opportunity cost at worst.

If a business goes bust, those losses can be written of at tax time. A worker losing their job faces homelessness, the inability to see a doctor or pay for their medications, and hunger.

To avail the benefit of writing off taxes, the ex-business owner requires future income. Who's to say that he/she won't be unemployed for a long while after devastating their life savings?

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#667
post #624
post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Means testing in social services is such a terrible idea. It creates nothing but perverse incentives like you describe. Programs like food stamps should be available to everyone who wants them. I don't care if a billionaire uses food stamps, they still need to eat. If too many rich people use the program, tweak tax rates until it balances out. It's a waste of our time to go through and double check that only those th…

> tweak tax rates until it balances out. that just makes the whole system inefficient - the rich pay a bunch of taxes, then try to obtain all of those benefits for having paid those taxes to try even it back out. So why not just tax less, and let them spend the money directly?

Countless trillions stashed in offshore tax havens in Andorra, Anguilla, Antigua, Aruba, Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Bermuda, Brunei, BVI, Cayman Islands, Cook Islands, Costa Rica, Cyprus, Denmark, Dominica, Dubai, Gibraltar, Grenada, Guernsey, Hong Kong, Isle of Man, Jersey, Labuan, Liberia, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Marshall Islands, Mauritius, Monaco, Montserrat, Nevis, New Zealand, Panama, Seychelles, Singapore, St. Vincent, St. Kitts, Switzerland, Turks and Caicos and Vanuatu seem to indicate that spending into the economy isn't something that the wealthy like to do.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#668

The problem that is never addressed in these "terrible job" "terrible wage. wages too low" stories is: Making dual income households the norm was the mistake that has led us to this point. The reason that a fast food job is so impossible to survive on is that at one point, a single guy living in a small apartment and driving a modest car could afford that because his purchasing power was essentially DOUBLE what it is…

Being single more workable (it’s easy to control spending) than having dependents (kids). Once you have a kid or two, your expenses become less predictable and things begin to pile up (literally, a larger house becomes a necessity rather than just a luxury).

I see many people putting off kids or just opting out completely because COL increases have just made them too risky.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#669
post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it mean to support a family? Is getting them sheltered, clothed and well fed good enough? I think it is way easier to achieve today than in almost any other time in a human history, even for the low earners. Restaurants are a part of the service sector. A service job does not imply that it is attractive. And they differ in requirements. The well paid ones get more and more complicated and hence, proportiona…

What does it mean to ask questions in bad faith?

To ask those questions of which everyone knows the answers and of which raising the subject is 'impolite' :)

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exploitive child labor is wrong. Allowing teens to willingly enter an employmemt contract is neither exploitive nor child labor.

> Allowing teens to willingly enter an employmemt contract is neither exploitive nor child labor. Non-adult teens (“Teen” spans the border) are indeed children, and their labor – while in some circumstances, quantities, etc. – permitted, is regulated as part of the broader regulation of child labor (which is not a total ban, even for very young children, and is graduated by age.) Whether it ought to be within the sco…

People learn skills by performing them. As parents we teach children life skills by having them help do the chore that daily life requires. When I have yard, mechanic, or construction work my children help. They have since they were able. I learned those skills by doing the same when I was young.

By prohibiting capable teens from work, either by pricing them out or law, we are hobbling their ability to learn valuable work skills. As a result we end up with adults that are lacking simple work skills that would make their labor more valuable.

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