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EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

statewatch.org

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Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#661

Post by crististm »

nix23 wrote: post #569
supportlocal4h wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you missed my point. Lawn mowers didn't get more dangerous. The level of danger hasn't gotten worse in that one respect. The level of trust might have changed. The acceptance of risk might have changed. I don't think that keeping my kid away from the lawn mower in order to protect them makes their life overall better or even safer. Lawn mowers are dangerous. But that doesn't mean they should be banned. As you…

I really missed your point a bit. But i watched a documentary about the US, where Children's under 12 are not allow to play outside without supervision, they get picket up by the police and the parents got big problems. Here, they run around the hole day in the forests with Swiss or Scout-knifes and lighters and some sausages in the backpack. It's just terrible to think that your children's are safe because they sit…

I don't get it how we got here. We were allowed to play outside (East Europe) near the house when we were six. Gradually increasing the comfort perimeter as we grew up. Twelve? I could have roamed the entire city if I had enough time to get back for lunch.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#663

Post by crististm »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #450
kmonsen wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is trivial to create an app using encryption to send messages between two users. On Android you can sideload so no need for app store. You can also solve this with a webpage, this way it can be used on all devices. The point is that creating a secure channel few users use is pretty trivial unless you outlaw crypto libraries. These laws can only take down apps/websites in mainstream use.

Sure, but you also need to recruit , and it's sort of hard to find new candidates if all you use is your super secret crypto app.

Hmm - it doesn't work that way and you know it.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#665

Post by nojvek »

Can we spin this in a massive public campaign that govt wants encryption backdoors so they can see your privates and be the pedophiles?

Snowden did expose that yes indeed, NSA did share around private pictures of people within themselves and joked around.

The way Uber+Lyft made a giant stink by making everyone acknowledge how Prop22 will affect them before they could hail a ride, tech companies coukd create awareness of anti-encryption in a similar manner right ?

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#666

Post by auganov »

intricatedetail wrote: post #401
auganov wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't be an encryption ban, but a ban on operating a platform that enables E2EE messaging. Similarly in most places you already cannot be an ISP or VPN provider without following some reporting requirements. And there's no simple way for criminals to get mainstream quality networking services that don't follow regulations. I don't agree with the ban, but I do think it would certainly hurt many classes criminals…

You cannot ban it unless you start deep inspection of people conversations. You can easily sneak public keys disguised as regular conversation and then encrypt messages offline and disguise as well.

And I'm sure the government doesn't expect a perfect ban. By going after platforms you'll take the ability to engage in secure E2EE messaging away from a large part of the population.

E2EE messaging that required coordination was already possible for decades and the governments didn't mind that as much.

Users that send too many encrypted blobs can simply be banned by platforms as suspicious (and I wouldn't be surprised if that's happening already). Exchanging files is easiest to detect by centralized platforms and hardest to do efficiently with good delivery assurances in reasonably anonymous decentralized systems.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#667

Post by KMag »

bigbizisverywyz wrote: post #655
jordanbeiber wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact so many people feel they need a gun for safety is the first and biggest issue IMO. This is fueled by movies and culture - have the gun in your possession and you’ll automatically win the fight - that was easy! I’ve read countless comments from Americans that they have a gun to shoot intruders. Statistics telling you there’s a bigger chance someone else will get hurt be damned. These ideas are have to be fuel…

>The fact so many people feel they need a gun for safety is the first and biggest issue IMO. And the reason for that is simple - marketing. Here in Switzerland I basically see no guns unless I go to the shooting club. There's none sold in the shops, there's none advertised in newspapers, tv or on the radio. And there is definitely no gun offered when opening a bank account. Basically if you want a gun for whatever re…

I spent over 30 years in the U.S., mostly in the upper Midwest, and the only gun advertisements I remember seeing were in sporting magazines or in sporting goods stores. I think your perceptions of U.S. gun advertising is either greatly exaggerated, or your experience is from a very different part of the country. Maybe things have changed drastically in the 8 years since I left, but I doubt it.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#668

Post by anonunivgrad »

Liberalism has failed. It was a great truce between political factions and (not all that different) value systems. But the value systems are drifting further apart. Conservatives and liberals no longer tolerate each other and technology has made it easier to coordinate and carry out mass illegality.

The future is more authoritarian states that don’t espouse neutrality but firmly embrace a value system and enforce it. We are seeing this already. In the US, the political battle is now between left authoritarians and right authoritarians (grudgingly dragging right-liberals/libertarians with them).

This is awful for people with liberal (left or right) sensibilities because it raises the stakes of politics. But there’s nothing we can do about it. Only authority can hold our societies together at this point.

Democracy will probably survive, but liberalism will not, except in its vestigial form. In America (unlike Europe), the government will not come for you for expressing your opinions, but it will indoctrinate your children against you and it will increasingly limit the exercise of freedom of conscience. It will not arrest you for publishing an article, but it will also not stop monopolist private platforms from censoring you, and will in fact encourage that censorship as responsible.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#669

Post by hvis »

ars wrote: post #335
hvis wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So only use encryption that can be decrypted by anybody who really wants to? That sounds useful.

If you make it cost $30,000 worth of computer time to decrypt, the vast majority of people would have privacy, yet the government could afford to tap important targets (and it would also block government fishing expeditions - they would be too expensive).

The government could, and any medium-sized corporation could as well. Ahoy, industrial espionage!

Don't forget the Moore's law as well (even though it's taken a hit lately). Come next year, it will cost 15000, in another few years it's 7500, and some time after it will cost And also, please remember that the journalists and human rights activists use encryption to keep their correspondence concealed chiefly from the government. And there are other governments on this planet, not just US.

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