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Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

macrumors.com

661–670 of 1001 posts

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#661

I am a developer and I really can't understand the arguments against Apple. And I have many apps on iOS store, and sure I would love to pay a less cut. But Apple's pricing policy was the same way before they had 50% share of phones. Sure a monopoly must be regulated, but it doesn't mean that if a company has >50% share you can dictate how they should price their product. Monopolies should be regulated so they don't i…

if a policy is 10 years old it's because policy, law, and govt hasn't caught up

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#662
post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple will do just fine arguing that their devices are no different from Xbox, PlayStation, Switch, Roku, Cable Boxes, Keurig, Vzw feature phones. I would be extremely surprised if the courts just up and anti-Tivo’d every device on the planet. You try to make a case about how phones are somehow special but they’re really not. You have millions of people who only have an Xbox and so you can’t reach them unless you con…

To me this is exactly where their argument falls apart. I don’t get what Epic wants exactly. Even with Android where they initially had users side load their apps they eventually gave up and put it on the Play Store after complaining that there’s too many warnings when users load third party APKs (how dare they include security warnings of un-reviewed apps!) It seems to me that Epic expects Apple and Google to offer…

In android's case, it's a lot simpler. Epic wants to partner with manufacturers who can preinstall epic's store, which google currently forbids.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And ironically Epic is mum on all those consoles that take the exact same cut that Apple does. The iPhone is merely another console. Really hard for me to see why this is controversial, or why Epic thinks that Apple can have a monopoly over their console while somehow Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo don’t...

There's two possibilities. 1. Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo have all negotiated smaller rev-share agreements with Epic. Maybe this is in exchange for marketing or console bundles or something else that improves the health of the platform. 2. Epic thinks they can use any victory they get out of Apple to force game console manufacturers to do the same thing. Personally, I think it's the latter - Epic's ultimate goal is…

Not to mention the chilling effect it'd have on adoption of unreal engine for next gen consoles. Just the existence of a Sony v Epic lawsuit, would have devs rethinking what engine they use for playstation 5.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#664
post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iPhone is not a store. The App Store is a store. Epic wants to be on the iPhone, but not necessarily in the App Store. Ideally, Epic wants to run its own store on the iPhone. In any case, App Store is the only store in town, where the "town" is the 1.5 billion iOS users. If there's only 1 store, with no competing stores, that's an entirely different situation legally.

Can’t Epic build their own phone? Are their barriers to entry that Apple has put in place to prevent them from building and selling a phone?

surely you jest. Has samsung been able to get a flagship phone sold without android?

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the correct goal to aim for here, beyond just the fees. Multiple fully functioning app stores is good for consumers on both platforms.

Well, I think not having a sole official gatekeeper is good for consumers on both platforms -- I'm mostly agnostic about the mechanism for getting there. I'm not convinced requiring Apple and Google to host other people's app stores in their app stores is actually a good idea, if only because I'm skeptical that a government-imposed regulatory mechanism for that wouldn't have unforeseen and unintended consequences. Ev…

That's what WeChat is already. It's an entire ecosystem with its own mini-apps, payments and community. Many users in China only use WeChat as the OS on top of iOS.

Apple is still trying to deal with that and doesn't really have a solution, and it only adds to the numerous inconsistent practices with the App Store.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#666
post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I bought a $1000 device, but somehow Apple gets to decide what I run on it? I just cannot see how that is a desireable situation.

I bought a $1000 device because Apple gets to decide what can run on it. I like iOS, and I like that Apple provides a great user experience on the device. I was not in any way coerced into buying said device, and there are a plethora of other options for substitute devices had I wanted more control of what runs on the device, which I do not.

You'll be relieved to know that being allowed to use another app store on the hardware you own wouldn't hinder your relationship with Apple at all.

There are plenty of Apple customers who do want to control what runs on their devices, which is why some people are excited about these developments.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No matter what opinion one holds on mobile store rules, they are their rules and so far you have the choice of following them (which is also somewhat iffy) or not being on the store. A valid opinion is that those rules are illegal under current federal statue. Another one is that although they currently aren't, they should be. > Separate the issues and angles and see it for what it is: just a bunch of legal departm…

> A valid opinion is that those rules are illegal under current federal statue. Another one is that although they currently aren't, they should be. If you think about it it's not really valid. Retailers take a big cut of the price to sell your product and its legal. The rules were defined many years ago, and its a free world - don't like it - don't buy it. Why would it be illegal?

The problem is there is no alternative to the App Store on iPhones. Epic Games couldn't open their own Epic Games App Store and sell their games there because Apple has a complete control over how apps can be used and sold on iPhones.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see how Epic wins this. If Stripe can claim Wells Fargo doesn't want to process porn payments, and that's legal, how can an American court rule for Epic? Epic are obviously going to lose, and lose hard, or set a precedent that's going to screw every payment provider in America and open a flood gate for fraudulent payments. You can't force someone to sell something they don't want to, especially because Apple…

How many times do we have to repeat ourselves regarding Apple and monopoly here on HN. For the love of god, don't go spouting stuff and saying there is no way Epic can win when your whole premises is simply wrong. First, learn what a monopoly is. It is when a company has over 50% marketshare in a certain market/industry (although sometimed an even lesser market share is required to call for anti-trust). Second, learn…

I don't see a way in which Apple is abusing its monopolistic threshold within its competition. Apple slides in at 45% of phone purchases in the US market. That's 122 million people choosing something else. Now, that's not marketshare, but Apple has convinced consumers that their product is worth the markup - clearly evident by the increased marketshare.

I don't understand the desire to regulate a business that has clearly demonstrated value in a highly competitive market - if you don't want an iPhone, join the other 122 million Americans or 2.3 Billion people with an android.

_You_ may believe

> Q.E.D. Apple has monopolistic power in the U.S. and needs to be dealt with.

but by and large, monopolistic control and anti-trust cases are only brought to court if they are used to negatively impact consumers. In Apple's position, they believe they are doing the better thing for the consumer. If their argument holds water in court, then who is the US government to tell Apple if that business strategy is sound? If the market wants something different or better, then it will decide.

Things would be different if Apple were attacking other platforms, but instead, they're simply moderating their own.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#670
post #561
post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iPhone is not a store. The App Store is a store. Epic wants to be on the iPhone, but not necessarily in the App Store. Ideally, Epic wants to run its own store on the iPhone. In any case, App Store is the only store in town, where the "town" is the 1.5 billion iOS users. If there's only 1 store, with no competing stores, that's an entirely different situation legally.

Yeah, I bought a $1000 device, but somehow Apple gets to decide what I run on it? I just cannot see how that is a desireable situation.

You what you were getting into when buying an Apple product lol
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