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Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

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661–670 of 694 posts

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We fought a war against the Nazis, with millions dead, to end fascism. We'd (hopefully) do it again if it were necessary. It's really off the mark to criticize the US for not having done enough against Nazis! Forget banning, we invaded and killed those fuckers.

This is literal Gestapo as we learned it during history class in 1990s Austria: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-race-portland-valo... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo#Suppression_of_resista...

Hey man, I don't like Trump either.

But we're nowhere close to the Nazi party in the US.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#662
post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's reasonable to do for national security purposes, just like I think it's reasonable to disentangle U.S. industries from Chinese companies that pose national security threats and steal trade secrets. So as a matter of principle, at least, I'm fine with it. I can't say I feel great about the wisdom of banning Tiktok in particular, but I won't let that confuse me into disagreeing with the underlying principl…

> I think it's reasonable to do for national security purposes Haven't the most egregious erosions of civil liberties (Patriot Act for example) been implemented using the same argument? Not commenting on the validity of your position specifically, but your reasoning for it seems like it could be applied to just about anything regardless of how well it fits into the idea of a free and open democracy

Also "national security purposes" is exactly what the Chinese government said when they banned Facebook, Twitter, etc.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#663
post #271

This is a terrible development and precedent. Whatever you think of the CCP and the Chinese approach to censorship and tech, building our own 'Great Firewall' and banning foreign apps/services we don't like is not the answer. It just legitimises the Chinese approach and sends us further down the road to a fragmented rather than open internet.

It's reciprocity. China built a great firewall, and now countries are just merely putting their own locks to the gates to prevent the China from having free access to their own markets while refusing to provide the same.

If it's reciprocity, then perhaps the government should state so, lest people think the US is becoming China.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. The definition of "arbitrarily" states: "on the basis of random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system". I think the President's decision is based on reason and is not a random choice or a personal whim as much as it might seem to some. Now, why is that? Well, it became public yesterday that Microsoft was in talks with TikTok to acquire them. Though every business decision by big player…

From a native Chinese’s perspective, this is scary: what’s the next thing he will ban? - Wechat: this make a virtual “family separation” - A purge of any app related to China (TuSimple, Zoom etc) - Suspend F1 and H1B visa for “suspected” Chinese and make special scrutiny during immigration interviews for all Chinese applicants - witch hunt more Let me tell you what’s this: Chinese Exclusion Act II

Isn’t this what happens to Western companies and products in China?

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#665
post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why give China access to our domestic market when they refuse to give us access theirs? What do you propose then?

China gives Apple access to their market but the US bans AT&T from partnering with Huawei to sell consumer phones.

Google, Facebook, and Twitter have been banned from operating in China. If you look at the big picture, Western companies have much less access to the Chinese domestic market than vice versa

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#666
post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China has been able to maintain its civilization state and it has a continuous history I'm baffled by what this means. Could you compare it to the United Kingdom for me? Are you conflating written history with continuous history?

While as an island the UK means its borders have mostly been fixed, it has definitely had quite a fluid culture and language history. The romans came and left their mark. Then the Vikings and the normans. We've had a strange love hate relationship with the French forever, branding them frogs while learning French so we can seem sophisticated. So in my mind it does lack that continuity that China has: For instance the…

This is excessively cherry-picked, and I’m just going to steal a quote from Wikipedia to illustrate:

> The Chinese have different languages in different provinces, to such an extent that they cannot understand each other.... [They] also have another language which is like a universal and common language; this is the official language of the mandarins and of the court; it is among them like Latin among ourselves....

The idea that you could transplant a peasant between millennia in China or even over any significant distance, and have them remain intelligible is simply untrue. In addition, you could take an educated person in most of Europe in the last 2000 years and expect to be able to communicate with them in Latin — it’s only the last hundred years or so when this has fallen out of favour. So recently in fact that nobody raised an eyebrow about the fact I had mandatory Latin lessons from the age of ten at my school, in the 90s.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#668
post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you have no real evidence, got it.

https://cs.brown.edu/courses/csci1800/sources/2017_PRC_Natio... . "Article 7 Any organization or citizen shall support, assist and cooperate with the state intelligence work in accordance with the law, and keep the secrets of the national intelligence work known to the public. The State protects individuals and organizations that support, assist and cooperate with national intelligence work."

So basically the same thing as the NSA, neat.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#669
post #550
post #271

This is a terrible development and precedent. Whatever you think of the CCP and the Chinese approach to censorship and tech, building our own 'Great Firewall' and banning foreign apps/services we don't like is not the answer. It just legitimises the Chinese approach and sends us further down the road to a fragmented rather than open internet.

Open internet is dead. It really sucks, I also had big dreams about it but it done for. Twitter, FB, Alphabet excercise absolute control over censoring people they do not like(who are most likely wrong but that is not the point). Saw what happened with those docs video that Trump retweeted? Open internet is long gone.

Sorry, you're conflating two entirely different things. An individual platform or service choosing to moderate content (which basically every website / app involving UGC does in one form or another) is in no way the same as censorship by the state.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You’re mistaken, I have little difficulty in acknowledging America’s faults and focusing on improving them. You haven't acknowledged a single one so far. You simply brush them as "I don't think the U.S. has killed millions of civilians within living memory" (it has), or the lack of healthcare is somehow not a direct consequence of capitalism in a sector that shouldn't be for profit (it is). Everyone can say they ca…

You keep misrepresenting me. I have acknowledged America’s faults, including the absence of universal healthcare. This isn’t meaningfully “a consequence of capitalism” as indeed many European countries with their public sector healthcare have capitalist economies. It’s really too bad that you insist on misrepresenting me and making disingenuous comparisons, because I think this conversation could have been interestin…

> have acknowledged America’s faults, including the absence of universal healthcare. This isn’t meaningfully “a consequence of capitalism”

It seems pretty clear to me that it is. Specifically lobbying and campaign donations by the for profit health insurance industry is a direct consequence of there being a for profit, capitalistic motive within that sector. These capitalist incentives are directly lobbying against universal healthcare.

And no, I do not blame all of capitalism for this, Nintendo is not responsible for the lack of universal healthcare in the U.S., just in case this really needs to be said.

> as indeed many European countries with their public sector healthcare have capitalist economies.

They tend to have mixed economies with a strong regulatory system and a social safety net.

I know in the U.S. the success of any public service gets overlooked, its failings get attributed to socialism and capitalism's failings get overlooked, so in the end capitalism wins.

In the EU, we know you can mix the two. You don't have to pick capitalism or socialism, they can be mixed and matched as it makes sense, which indeed seems to be the best approach.

Not every aspect of capitalism is great and not every aspect of socialism is terrible. This seems to be forgotten a lot in American discourse and everything is very black and white to you, it seems.

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