Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk • Hacker News Board

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#661

Post by panzagl » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:37 PM UTC

pgrote wrote: post #638

twblalock wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, remote education has been a complete disaster. I know a few teachers. Apparently their students found out that the state was unwilling to hold anyone back a year during the pandemic, they shared this information with each other, and now a substantial amount of them are not doing any work. In some classes, more than half the students are permanently absent! Either their parents don't know, or don't car…

>The problem is, remote education has been a complete disaster. Speaking from a USA perspective, no, it was a complete shit show. And you know what? That is fine. Our school district went from completely normal one day to remote learning the next. Huge swing in what to do and how to do it. There were no plans for a global pandemic. School districts learned quickly there were external factors affecting everyone's life…

My wife is a teacher, guess how much direction she has had over the summer? Districts are just now thinking about whether they'll be online or not, 2-3 weeks before they open.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#662

Post by 1123581321 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:38 PM UTC

thephyber wrote: post #252

nickff wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want an increase in mask supply, you have to either allow the pricing mechanism to do its job, or force people to make masks. Given the (very popular) laws against price gauging, it seems like the only viable option is to force some companies to manufacture more masks. Production capacity is available, but at a higher cost than is currently economical. All that being said, your second point seems correct to me…

> If you want an increase in mask supply, you have to either allow the pricing mechanism to do its job, or force people to make masks. Those aren't the only options. Some mask manufacturers could scale up manufacturing as long as they had a medium/long term contract to make the investment worth it. The current administration keeps blaming the previous one for drawing down on the federal PPP supply without replenishin…

That’s the removing price gouging solution, just at the wholesale level. Unless the plan is for the government to tell the manufacturers what kind of pay they should find acceptable.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

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Post by sv123 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:38 PM UTC

jorblumesea wrote: post #322

not2b wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this is a consequence of ideologies that have become popular in the US both in politics and in business. Having government direct a mobilization is not acceptable. A mandate that people wear masks is not acceptable. Having manufacturing capacity to make low-value products in large numbers in the US is bad business when poorer countries can do it for less. Having spare inventory is bad, because just-in-time man…

While it's easy to blame Trump (and he deserves a heaping pile of blame), the corruption and destruction of a functional US government has long been the goal of those on the right. Since the 80s there has been a concerted movement to defund and destroy the effective ability of our government for ideological and personal reasons. Then, when the water treatment plants break down or the education system is a mess they c…

It's the GOP motto: Government doesn't work, here let me show you.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

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Post by quicklime » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:39 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #639

electriclove wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No place in the world is handling this as poorly as we have. Well.. maybe Brazil?

What about Iran?

The US has higher case and death counts than Iran, both in absolute terms as well as per-capita. The US also looks to be on a worse trajectory.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

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Post by samatman » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

electriclove wrote: post #626

oramit wrote: post #358

What we currently have going on right now is a complete collapse in confidence. So many commenters are debating the death rate, case counts, hospitalizations, etc, which is all besides the point. Heres the thing: even if you believe people are being irrationally afraid, telling people they are stupid and should just suck it up isn't going to get people to cooperate. Do you want to be smugly right, or do you want thin…

I'm very pleased by the decision from the top in California today about keeping schools remote until things get better. The only complaint I have is how long it took to get there. Tons of people at hundreds/thousands of school districts and private schools throughout the state have spent incredible effort debating and planning and so much effort could have been saved if the decision from the top was made earlier.

I share your pleasure in the decision, but staunchly disagree with you about the method used to reach it.

The correct decision was reached, in time (before the start of the school year) for it to make a difference.

Tons of people and thousands of schools vigorously debating is the democratic process. A decision handed down from "the top" is authoritarianism, and as we've seen repeatedly this year, authoritarian decisions are resisted even when they're the right decision.

For something like masking, you can justify it with the urgency of the situation (even though I'm compelled to add that "the top" got this one wrong during the crucial months of February and March). For starting school in the fall, you can't.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

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Post by neverartful » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #553

japhyr wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can push for answers from those people, but there's probably no real answers to give. The federal response to the pandemic has been so ineffective, to put it kindly, that it leaves people at all levels with no meaningful responses. Principals, superintendents, and school boards can want to offer the support described in this thread, but have no real way to actually deliver it.

The public schools are run by the states. Look to your governor.

Not always. My kids were educated in public schools K-12 and we always lived in areas where the schools were the best. The 2 things in common for different places we lived were: (1) higher property taxes (used to fund the schools), and (2) very active parental involvement in the schools.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

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Post by sv123 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:42 PM UTC

diogenescynic wrote: post #463

slowhand09 wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My nephews kids are homeschooled. They have a rigorous curriculum, specific goals, etc. They also have regular socialization activity with other homeschoolers. They just choose to not settle for the mediocrity, nor accept the indoctrination pushed by the education system.

No offense, but this is where it starts getting weird and into the whole "society is bad!" that seems pretty extreme: >They just choose to not settle for the mediocrity, nor accept the indoctrination pushed by the education system. Most people I know who went to public schools came out fairly well. I refuse to share this elitist/ideological attitude towards them. What indoctrination? Don't you think that's a rather g…

> Most people I know who went to public schools came out fairly well. I refuse to share this elitist/ideological attitude towards them. What indoctrination? Don't you think that's a rather general and blanket statement considering how varied each school district is? Maybe that's more of a criticism of how schools are run in your area.

That's exactly what someone who has been indoctrinated at a public school would say!

/s

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

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Post by samatman » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:43 PM UTC

marcell wrote: post #540

oramit wrote: post #358

What we currently have going on right now is a complete collapse in confidence. So many commenters are debating the death rate, case counts, hospitalizations, etc, which is all besides the point. Heres the thing: even if you believe people are being irrationally afraid, telling people they are stupid and should just suck it up isn't going to get people to cooperate. Do you want to be smugly right, or do you want thin…

> we didn't follow through with the lockdown nationally to actually stomp the virus This statement implies that there's a way to completely eradicate the virus, eg. if everyone in the world stays locked in their homes for 6 weeks, then the virus will be eradicated. That's not realistic, the level of coordination required to make that happen does not exist. So eradicating the virus was never on the table, no matter ho…

It appears to have worked for New Zealand, though notably, not anywhere else, even Australia.

So you can argue that it was infeasible, and I would have to agree with you. But you can't argue it was impossible.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

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Post by bjustin » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:43 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #354

jude- wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charter schools in many jurisdictions can also expel underperforming or struggling kids, while public schools are obligated to enroll everyone regardless. I would be very skeptical of any charter school benchmarks.

Also the Supreme Court just said that states that give money to secular schools must also give money to religious schools. And religious schools can discriminate in a separate decision.

I believe the case about giving money to religious schools was regarding publicly accessible facilities (playgrounds), so it doesn't change anything about funding for classrooms, teachers, etc.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

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Post by sfotm » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:44 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #184

sfotm wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because education is valuable regardless of whether or not everyone listens to you?

True, but not the point. The point is that those in authority are acting both inconsistently and stupidly.

I can understand the sentiment well enough. The person holding the sign has the impression that experts in epidemiology aren't being listened to by some people. But their education is still very much in play and is clearly valuable, so I don't think the sign is really making a useful point. It's just complaining.