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India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

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Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#661

India is absolutely right in banning TikTok as it is a significant national securities threat. As long as the platforms recommendation and ranking algos are a black box, there is no guarantee that China isn’t conducting misinformation campaigns via the platform. At the very least, the government should audit the algos and make sure China can’t arbitrarily alter ranking results.

But I doubt any due process was done before the ban, if any and concrete proof of wrongdoing is established before doing such things. Most of the bigger app developers will surely goto court.

If any this sounds like a propaganda move aimed at giving the people a feeling that the government has done something about it.

Some of these may relaunched as a web service, some may relaunch under a different branding, there are any number of things the app makers can legitimately do to skirt around this.

Using summary executive powers to do such is a rather undemocratic move, and which time and again this Indian Government has indicated it has no qualms of using.

This is a politically motivated move, where as it should not be. If there was established wrongdoing then ban the apps, not because it is politically convenient to do it.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from a western country and I know for a fact that homicide rate in US is 6 times worse than China (6/100,000 in US VS Maybe US has some problems on its own...

Plus, the average Chinese minority does not fear being shot by the police.

Google Uighurs. Being a minority in China means being subject to genocide.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#664
post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you forget a detail. Nation state, or any state, are sovereign. If the national community agrees on something, it's all that matter. We don't have to abide by other countries standards on everything especially if we dont like it. Im thinking as a French I had to fight a lot with free speech absolutists abroad, while at home we're quite okay with selective censorship... it sounds scary to an American sometimes…

The idea that restrictions in human liberty are subject to when "a national community agrees on something" is laughable at best and evil at worst.

Does that also pertain to drug regulations? Because the US certainly restricts a whole hell of a lot of people based on that.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#666

India is absolutely right in banning TikTok as it is a significant national securities threat. As long as the platforms recommendation and ranking algos are a black box, there is no guarantee that China isn’t conducting misinformation campaigns via the platform. At the very least, the government should audit the algos and make sure China can’t arbitrarily alter ranking results.

> India is absolutely right in banning TikTok as it is a significant national securities threat.

As opposed to Skype, Facebook, WhatsApp, Snapchat and all the others?

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#667
post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you forget a detail. Nation state, or any state, are sovereign. If the national community agrees on something, it's all that matter. We don't have to abide by other countries standards on everything especially if we dont like it. Im thinking as a French I had to fight a lot with free speech absolutists abroad, while at home we're quite okay with selective censorship... it sounds scary to an American sometimes…

@xwolfi Agree with you as long as majority of national community agree, it is ok. This is how democracy works the minority are suppressed one or the other way and things go the way majority wants. Indeed even on HN if a comment is down-voted it's greyed out so that people cannot read those minority views (obviously if its a hate speech can be flagged, which is already done, but then its thin line and needs tremendous…

India allows internet/app companies from other countries. It's just banning chinese apps because it is now in conflict with China.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really think it is. Regardless of the moral/ethical issues with China and it's relationship with it's own population, this is China serving it's population. It is in China's best interest to provide maximum value for China, that includes it's citizens. I don't think it's "unfair" for China to leverage whatever tools are at its disposal for the benefit of China. In context the argument being presented here is…

The original point was that China was seeking an asymetrical market which is unfair. I was responding to a comment that seemed to think that wasn't unfair to anyone. You seem to support the original comment in that China is indeed seeking an unfair advantage as long as it thinks it can get away with it. Not sure what you think you're rebutting. India's scam economy doesn't really have anything to do with the discussi…

I guess I don't understand your definition of the word "unfair" here. China isn't seeking an unfair advantage. They already have it. They've been allowed that advantage.

I don't see how that's unfair when it's been willfully given to them with little to no pushback. We're just finally starting to see it as demonstrated here.

Is it "unfair" for someone to eat the cake that you're not interested in eating?

I think the discussion of India's scam economy is very relevant here. It's something I would say is arguably more unfair in the sense it is literally robbery. China's apps may serve the state but they do also offer value to the users of it, they're an actual product.

But on the flipside of India's scam economy, being a tech support call center employee in many parts of India is a great steady job for many of the people who are employed in that field, especially compared to their other options. It's great for them, it's great for India and India's economy. It's not great for gullible Americans though.

I guess I just don't understand what you think is unfair here, or maybe moreso, what you think is fair. Seems like more a perspective issue. You're viewing it from the perspective of someone who doesn't see the benefit/value to China, or doesn't like what they're doing.

As I said, I don't agree with a lot of what China does, but it serves China.

I guess to be clear, I don't see where there is any fair side to any of this. What makes this more unfair than the wildly varying cost of labor in a global market? We exported all of our low-skill labor and manufacturing to places where labor is cheap. Now those places have thriving and rapidly growing economies and we're seeing the consequences of them. Domestically the labor market is dramatically different and upward mobility is at an all time low. People can't get the same jobs they used to at one company and retire 20 years later and live off their pension. Meanwhile in the places we exported all of our labor too, quality of life is going up across the board and many of the people who used to be paid almost slave wages and worked to the bone are starting to experience what would have been a middle-class life in the US 20-30 years ago.

Where was the fairness in that? I'm not sure the concept of fair can be applied here at all outside of X entity maximizing value for X, and that is what China has done.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#669
post #75

India is absolutely right in banning TikTok as it is a significant national securities threat. As long as the platforms recommendation and ranking algos are a black box, there is no guarantee that China isn’t conducting misinformation campaigns via the platform. At the very least, the government should audit the algos and make sure China can’t arbitrarily alter ranking results.

I was skeptical about this, but I think they are surely are. I installed tiktok just maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago.. it was kind of fun at first and was amused by some stuff on there. What it was showing me I thought was very relevant to prior stuff I had seen in some regard (just the type of humor) so I was kind of impressed. Then all the sudden it started showing me all this pro-Trump/pro-religion/antiBLM stuff. And look,…

Tiktok is just a terrible implementation of Vine. It's not unique.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#670

India is absolutely right in banning TikTok as it is a significant national securities threat. As long as the platforms recommendation and ranking algos are a black box, there is no guarantee that China isn’t conducting misinformation campaigns via the platform. At the very least, the government should audit the algos and make sure China can’t arbitrarily alter ranking results.

> India is absolutely right in banning TikTok as it is a significant national securities threat. As opposed to Skype, Facebook, WhatsApp, Snapchat and all the others?

The difference being TikTok is operated by India’s adversary.
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