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With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

nytimes.com

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Re: With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

#661

Post by virmundi »

dragonwriter wrote: post #653
virmundi wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the ACA a family of 4 could get health insurance from the private market for 350 a month or 4200 a year and it's tax deductible. In Germany, a family of 4 making 75k$ a year pay 7.5% or 5,625$. The US system was cheaper and comparable. Now it's dramatically more expensive for the same cost. All we got from the government is expense. This is why many here are not pro-single payer.

> Before the ACA a family of 4 could get health insurance from the private market for 350 a month or 4200 a year and it's tax deductible. Or not at all, depending on pre-existing conditions, continuity of past coverage, and other factors.

Which is a fair, but statistically insignificant point. We had a lot of uninsured that could have afforded insurance without government aid. Now we have to get aid to afford anything.

Re: With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

#662

Post by e12e »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #478
seppin wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You got it right, it's difficult to imagine for a European what it's like to deal with having no medical care if unemployed. you buy subsidized insurance. do Europeans really think the USA is just a free for all ?

Yes, or worse. I'm American. I live in Norway. Most folks I talk to from other countries - not just Europe - find the American health care system to be cruel and too expensive for the common person. And by the way, I do not buy subsidized insurance. I pay my taxes, and I have health insurance. My taxes pay for health insurance. There is nothing else to pay to get that, other than a small fee for the doctor out of poc…

Nit: "everyone" pays taxes - you get healthcare even if you don't pay any taxes (eg: college student without taxable income, unemployed not receiving benefits (yes, there's income tax on unemployment benefits)).

Re: With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

#663

Post by wil421 »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #503
wil421 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you bringing up healthcare on an iPhone discussion? Trying to figure out how it is relevant to the pricing of an iPhone in Sweden.

Because in most of Europe, sales tax (which therefore is added onto the purchase of your new iPhone), will in some part go towards the funding of universal coverage free-at-point-of-use healthcare. In the US you get your phone cheaper. But you buy your healthcare. Most Europeans would prefer to pay more for their phone and know everybody in their neighbourhood gets free medical for life in return.

You could say the same thing a different way. I'd like to see a study comparing total costs of the two over a decade.

In Europe you pay more taxes but pay less at the doctor.

In US you pay less taxes but might pay more if you need to go to a doctor.

Sales tax is a state thing and many US states don't have it. For example Florida doesn't have Sales Tax or Income Tax.

Re: With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

#664

Post by dogruck »

nto8e90nt3 wrote: post #654
dogruck wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, the price increased. And, let's ignore related factors such as the increased cost of medical education and advances in medical care (my aunt got a new heart a year ago!) My view of the mainstream story is that things went from ok to chaos within the past, say, 3 years. Instead, the costs have been steadily rising while voters have repeatedly opted not to make changes. Thought experiment: what if gas or milk price…

> Instead, the costs have been steadily rising while voters have repeatedly opted not to make changes. Have voters done that, though? I mean look at the trouble Republicans are having repealing the ACA. Voters seem to not want to repeal it. It seems like only the Republican leadership actually wants it repealed. My understanding is that when you ask individual voters of all stripes, they agree that pre-existing condi…

Look at all the congressional seats the Democrats lost (and the POTUS seat) after Obama pushed through his plan.

It's always harder to repeal a law, versus blocking it from passing. As soon as a law is passed, it's the new status quo. And recall how close the recent repeal vote was.

Why haven't we repealed the laws against weed and poker yet?

Re: With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

#665

Post by unclepresent »

dogruck wrote: post #465
mbroncano wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got it right, it's difficult to imagine for a European what it's like to deal with having no medical care if unemployed. In addition, the fact that's part of every discussion gives a hint of how much of an issue this is.

Strange how the US healthcare setup is largely unchanged over many years, yet the general perception is that it's suddenly total chaos. I'm not saying the status quo is best, but we didn't suddenly plunge into a crisis.

Price of healthcare is driven by a luck of supply (medical professionals, hospitals, affordable drugs) and supply is limited by regulation (expensive and ridiculously long educational process for physicians, huge liability and regulatory burden for practitioners and hospitals, very long and expensive approval process for moving a new drug through FDA, plus again liability cost) .

Regulation in turn is driven by lobbying efforts of large professional groups (trial lawyers, AMA, large pharma etc).

In another word it is a corrupted system that manages stay afloat as people in power legally able to get their cut through lobbying.

Re: With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

#666

Post by dogruck »

ashark wrote: post #621
dogruck wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good points. Which leads to the question, when everybody has "free" healthcare, who gets the top docs, and who gets the bottom and average docs?

Not sure. How's it work in the entire rest of the OECD?

The people with inside connections, more power, or who make extra payments get the top docs. Regular folk get the rest.

Re: With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

#667

Post by [deleted] »

unclepresent wrote: post #665
dogruck wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange how the US healthcare setup is largely unchanged over many years, yet the general perception is that it's suddenly total chaos. I'm not saying the status quo is best, but we didn't suddenly plunge into a crisis.

Price of healthcare is driven by a luck of supply (medical professionals, hospitals, affordable drugs) and supply is limited by regulation (expensive and ridiculously long educational process for physicians, huge liability and regulatory burden for practitioners and hospitals, very long and expensive approval process for moving a new drug through FDA, plus again liability cost) . Regulation in turn is driven by lobby…

[deleted]

Re: With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

#668

Post by norea-armozel »

I can't see myself buying another phone after buying an iPhone 6 in 2015. I just don't see a reason to replace it until the battery can't charge anymore. By then I don't have plans on getting an equivalent phone. Maybe something cheaper but I think purchasing phones every two years or the like is bad from an economical standpoint. I'd rather spend my money I'm better food than a fancier phone but I'm weird.

Re: With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

#669

Post by unclepresent »

wil421 wrote: post #605
oAlbe wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a point below which you can't afford any kind of even subsidized insurance. Not if you want to keep paying rent, buy food, car insurance to keep going to work, phone bill, electric bill and so on. Whereas in the part of Europe where I live, the less you have the less healthcare costs you. EDIT: The less it costs for the same quality.

I'm not really sure where you get your information. Anyone can get Heath insurance from the healthcare.gov marketplace. Your salary requirements factor into the price. Someone making only 17k a year is capped at $54 a month premium. There are caps at certain salary intervals. > Whereas in the part of Europe where I live, the less you have the less healthcare costs you. 100% true for the US as well. Please don't liste…

If you are not getting subsidized because of income, you have to pay for everyone else who is subsidized.

I was buying plans from health care exchange for 2 years and my last plan for two (parent and child) cost me 500$ per month with 6500 deductible per person - 13000$ total.

So effectively I had only a catastrophic insurance but was forced to pay for some subsidized guys who had a platinum plan with no deductible for 54$ per month. Worst situation for people like me!

Re: With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

#670

Post by ashark »

dogruck wrote: post #666
ashark wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure. How's it work in the entire rest of the OECD?

The people with inside connections, more power, or who make extra payments get the top docs. Regular folk get the rest.

If that's true, then it's more or less the same, no?
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