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Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

nytimes.com

661–670 of 882 posts

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how the tech will handle false accusations, though. The culture of "guilty until proven innocent" opens up avenues of abuse, which were, are, and will be used.

Usually those people are repeated offenders and once first victim comes out, other are encouraged to do so too. That would give claim more weight. False accusations are rare anyway, but I understand your concerns.

There are some with only one accuser.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#662
post #7

This entire article is a smorgasbord of cringe: > During the recruiting process, Mr. McClure, a founder of 500 Startups and an investor, sent her a Facebook message that read in part, “I was getting confused figuring out whether to hire you or hit on you.” One would think having the phrases "hire you" and "hit on you" in the same sentence when communicating with someone undergoing recruitment at your company would be…

One has to marvel at the thought process that made Marc Canter offer that ludicrous excuse to defend his sexual harassment of Wendy Dent. Also amazing that he prioritizes disputing being her adviser, rather than the harassment allegations online [1][2][3]. The article has prompted more people to outline incidents with him: "Horrified but not surprised by Marc Canter's justification of his sexual harassment. He propositioned me for a threesome many times"[4]. Didn't matter how many times I said no or how awkward it was [5].

[1] https://twitter.com/marccanter4real/status/88093410824684748...

[2] https://twitter.com/marccanter4real/status/88093168832647168...

[3] https://twitter.com/marccanter4real/status/88092323039082905...

[4] https://twitter.com/zephoria/status/880967155365367808

[5] https://twitter.com/zephoria/status/880967375692148737

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#663
post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Nope. These people are being assholes because they ARE assholes. To be fair, even an asshole may show some restraint when they have a clear understanding of consequences. Thinking their money buys them immunity from consequence is an enabler as they don't believe they have the slightest need for this kind of rational self-interest. You are both right, an asshole is an asshole as you suggest, but even so, assholes ar…

Men need to work hard to jail those assholes, here's why: They are the reason why men are described as generally threatening, discrediting and imposing huge constraints in advance on all men who show proper social restraint and respect for women.

While I get and understand your sentiment, the problem is that being an asshole and a creep isn't illegal in itself. If some male VC groped a female founder in the course of trying to set up a funding deal, then sure, press charges and make it right, but texting a founder "Why are you still with your boyfriend/partner/girlfriend? We should go out for drinks, I'm so much better than him" is just wrong, but not criminal.

As much as I would like to see punishment for clearly abusive and shitty behavior like this article describes, 90% of the time it comes down to character profiles as this thread explains. Even if it found its way into court, the defense would almost certainly try to be framed as a misunderstanding. Instead of punishing and potentially ruining lives for what is sounding like thought-crime, lets just get men off the pedestal and put them on the same goddamned level as women. A woman shouldn't have to defend her reputation for not being slutty if she gets groped, assaulted or raped, and more importantly shouldn't have to fear retaliation for accusing someone of being not just an asshole, but a dangerous asshole.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you havent watched "An Open Secret" (about DEN) then you dont know how deep the rabbit hole goes... If you didnt believe in #PG prior, DEN's documentary; an open secret may just change your mind... https://youtu.be/4eeGX4SlF1s?t=1595

Wow, thank you for posting for that link! I just finished watching "An Open Secret" for the first time, and it chillingly corroborates most of what Fucked Company humorously presented in that South-Park style documentary, which is how I first heard about the story when Fucked Company covered it contemporaneously. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmaRTZpJgPA https://youtu.be/4eeGX4SlF1s?t=1h8m8s I only learned about ab…

You seem to have forgotten to post a link you intended...

The scary thing is that btc is likely the traffickers currency of choice these days. How traceable are btc transactions wrt what types of goods or services are supposedly purchased with btc?

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#665
post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As has been pointed out, no one is suggesting non-consensual recording. Starting a meeting with, "do you mind if I record this?" is hardly alien. As for burden of proof, I don't see it. It's like saying that asking people to lock their houses is a burden, when thieves are the criminals. If you are a VC having a meeting with a founder, arrange for for more than 2 people to be there, such as a co-VC, a co-founder, a se…

The burden argument seems really disingenuous given the context. This is a business meeting, not picking dinner with your friends, and the process is full of negotiation, records, and witnesses. Would anyone protest writing down terms or having a secretary at the meeting to avoid the chance of a contractual dispute later?

[deleted]

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#666
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect less VCs to take meetings with women, sadly. Not because they are likely to be problems, quite the opposite I'd wager. That's going to be the rather depressing and sad reality of the shakeout of this.

Because VCs are all populated by serial harassers who now realize they can't get away with this crap? Or are you saying these will be seen as false accusations and thus it'll scare off VCs who aren't run by mysogynist pieces of sh-t? Because I'm not sure what the alternative is. If a VC is not in the habit of harassing women, they have nothing to fear. In fact, it'll give them an opportunity to court talented entrepr…

Everyone has plenty to fear. Any sexual harassment/rape accusations (no matter how untrue) are incredibly damaging, it's very biased towards the accuser.

The people who actually do this shit are scumbags, but there's plenty who will take advantage of this when things don't go their way, and reputation damage is worse than physical for a lot of people.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#667
post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No good leader is taking unnecessary risks. In fact, if you study history, taking unnecessary risks has been the downfall of many otherwise great leaders

IMO, everyone who has left a steady job to found a company has taken an unnecessary risk.

That's a very subjective definition of unnecessary risk. Clearly there are potential rewards (ev+ if you're into poker or ai) in starting your own company.

Helping a stranger get promoted? At the risk of ending your career (a massive loss for most people)? With the only reward being feeling good for Doing The Right Thing (tm)? Not so much

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#668
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/prevalence/border... I don't consider 1.6% among the general population to be "vanishingly small". That's easily approaching and I think even exceeding 1/100 when you factor for women only, since the majority of BPD diagnoses are for women. This isn't really insignificant when you think about how many people you will run into during a typical career. This also doesn't accoun…

Why do you seem to be under the impression that BPD is a good proxy for whether someone will make false accusations of sexual harassment?

Parent claims personal experience.

I'm not saying that it's right to lump people together like that and BPDs in particular don't take well talking shit about them.

However, some people with mental issues in some situations really pull off lies and deception which blow most people's minds. I've been in situations where people in charge wouldn't believe some things happening right under their nose because those things were simply too bold and, well, insane. And because people are easily manipulated into forming good opinions about others and apparently don't like learning they have been wrong.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#669
post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, everyone who has left a steady job to found a company has taken an unnecessary risk.

That's a very subjective definition of unnecessary risk. Clearly there are potential rewards (ev+ if you're into poker or ai) in starting your own company. Helping a stranger get promoted? At the risk of ending your career (a massive loss for most people)? With the only reward being feeling good for Doing The Right Thing (tm)? Not so much

> Clearly there are potential rewards (ev+ if you're into poker or ai) in starting your own company.

That a risk is +EV does not make it a necessary risk.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#670

I remember coming across a 2011 article on similar behavior by a New York investor, where I could not figure out whether the writers were condoning the behavior, in an almost fawning tone, or highlighting a problem. http://observer.com/2011/11/charlie-odonnell-women-in-tech-d... Just read it again, it is beyond cringeworthy.

He's now an investor in The Wing
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